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Vintage Radio (domestic) Domestic vintage radio (wireless) receivers only. |
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4th Jul 2018, 11:57 pm | #1 |
Octode
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Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
A good friend of mine who collects German artifacts from WW2 has just acquired this set. He has asked me to restore it for him as he would be thrilled to hear it working.
It would appear to be in really good unmolested condition. The cabinet is in perfect condition with no damage. The chassis is non rusty, the speaker cone is in perfect order. Speaker cloth is slightly stained but pretty good and the rear cover is present. The only issue so far is the output valve has a crack in the glass so will need to be replaced. My initial research suggests that these sets were produced by various manufacturers over about a 10 year period. This one is made by Schaleco Radio and I assume it's a fairly late one as the dial is marked with German Station names. On the lower half of the tuning dial, only visible when the chassis is removed from the cabinet, is the Eagle motif and a Swastika. Considering this is supposed to be a budget radio, the standard of construction is really good. I would be interested to learn more about these sets but there doesn't seem to be that much information on the internet or on this forum. The high impedance speaker is an interesting thing in itself with a horseshoe magnet and a rod connected to the cone. The 2000 Ohm coil is thankfully intact! I'll post some pictures of it tomorrow evening when I've had more time to investigate it. All the best Nick |
5th Jul 2018, 1:38 am | #2 |
Heptode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
There is actually quite a lot of information about these sets on the internet, though mainly, unsurprisingly, in German.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/gemein...ve301w_ve.html is a good starting point. And https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_res164.html for the output valve. There are also some replacement suggestions at Jogi's Roehrenbude: http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren/Umsockeln.htm |
5th Jul 2018, 8:37 am | #3 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Yes, there's a lot of info about them available in German. Jogis Röhrenbude mentioned above is a good source:
Volksempfänger or here if you want it in English: Volksempfänger in English This one will take you to the homepage if you want to browse around a bit: Jogi's homepage The W version is "Wechselstrom", i.e. AC. There were also G (Gleichstrom) versions for DC and B for battery.
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5th Jul 2018, 8:51 am | #4 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
The high impedance cone driver brings back memories.
I found a brand new one in its box many many years ago and sold it for not a lot to an antiques dealer. Will you be able to find an output valve? I believe that they are a bit odd. Last edited by Boater Sam; 5th Jul 2018 at 8:52 am. Reason: added |
5th Jul 2018, 9:36 am | #5 | |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Quote:
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5th Jul 2018, 9:58 am | #6 |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
The one I am doing currently is a Dyn, the square one with the twin swasticas on the front. I have a GW also in the works but it’s been butchered and I need to find all sorts for it.
However on my GW version the valve lineup is VY1, VL1 and VC1 with the VY having been replaced with a metal rectifier and the VC1 being missing completely. On hold for now. I will start a separate thread for the Dyn version: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=147887
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Last edited by AC/HL; 5th Jul 2018 at 4:38 pm. Reason: Link added |
5th Jul 2018, 10:01 am | #7 |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
This is the chassis and back cover for my VE301GW
Regards C
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5th Jul 2018, 11:50 pm | #8 |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Thanks for the various links: some I'd already found and some I hadn't!
Yes the RES164 does seem to be a bit odd and seems pretty specific to these radios. I did see some on Ebay but I will put a request in the 'wanted' section just in case...! It would seem they made this range of radio's for about 10 years and so it would be nice to try and date mine. Anyway, here are some pictures to be going on with! Cheers Nick |
21st Aug 2018, 11:37 pm | #9 |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Well finally I've found some time to make a start at last! The first thing I like to do with any new project be it a radio (rather a rarity for me!) or TV, is to trace out the circuit of the actual item and compare it with the circuit diagram. This gets me used to the layout and where all the components are physically located and also highlights any circuit differences.
This particular circuit version found here : http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/VE-DKE/Ve301w.jpg conforms exactly to my radio which is handy. Under the chassis is a large rectangular box containing 5 capacitors. 2, 4, 0.1 & 0.1 mfd rated at 450V and a 1mfd rated at 100V. I don't know if the 2 & 4 mfd are electrolytic: I somehow suspect not. Most of the rest of the components are mounted to the tags of this box so removing it is not so easy. However, the caps within are bound to be very leaky: after all they are 80 years old! So the first task was to remove this capacitor box with a view to testing and probably restuffing it. Having drawn a diagram and taken a couple of pictures, it was a simple matter to carefully unsolder all the components. For simplicity of production, which I admire, the box and both the mains and interstage transformers are mounted to the chassis with lugs which are twisted through 45 degrees. To get to the lugs on the capacitor box necessitated removing the large coil pack and also the mains transformer! I must say the quality of construction is really very good especially as this is supposed to be a low budget radio. The resistors are lovely and have the values printed on them. Apart from one that was fractured, they all read nearly spot on! Anyway, back to the now removed capacitor box. I tested each one with my cheap Chinese tester expecting very high readings which is what you get with leaky caps. Surprisingly all five caps read almost spot on for value I then tested them for leakage with a high voltage power supply, 20K series resistor just in case, and the Avo 8 to measure the current. The 2mfd sees the highest voltage and was tested at 380V. The rest at 300V. The 1mfd is 100V rated and so was tested at 90V. Leakage currents ranged from 10 to 20 microamps for the larger caps down to 2 & 3 microamps for the smaller ones. I was amazed that after 80 years, all were in almost perfect working order! I am more than happy with those results and so the box will be re-fitted as it is. Tomorrow night I will test the remaining 5 low value caps and see what state they are in. Also the insulation resistance of the mains transformer which I suspect will be fine. All the best Nick |
22nd Aug 2018, 10:31 am | #10 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
You lucky XXXXX getting to work on one of these! I've been looking for one for ages but they've either been wrecked or have eye-watering prices. I shall be following with interest.
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22nd Aug 2018, 11:48 pm | #11 | |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Quote:
However, more progress has been made tonight. After last night's spectacular result with the capacitor block, I tested the remaining small value capacitors. These were 60pf, 100pf, 150pf and 5000pf (all marked in cm) and 500V rated. These are in inch long black plastic tubes with the ends sealed with pitch. The values & working volts are clearly printed on them. I'm not sure what sort of plastic it would be from that date? You could not ask for something more civilised to re-stuff! Tested at 380V, the three small ones had only 2 microamps leakage each but all read two or three times the stated capacitance. The 5000pf was almost dead short. So I think I'll re-stuff all 4 of them. The insulation resistance of the mains transformer was next measured. I've only got an old analogue Megger here that only reads to 50 meg. It does test at 500V though and showed that the resistance was at least greater than that. So with no valves in and the capacitor block still out of the way, I applied 220V from an autotransformer. (220V is the highest this radio is designed for). The primary current measured 20ma and there was 4.2V for the valve heaters and also 4.3V for the rectifier. The HT winding produced 350V. The RGN354 rectifier, which only has three pins, was then inserted and it's heater current measured at a measly 300ma. Checking the data showed that to be correct. The REN904 triode at the front end draws 1A. So far so good. Now time to see if it will actually rectify! Hooking the capacitor box and other relevant resistors back up temporarily and connecting a 22K resistor to act as an HT load of about 10ma, produced an HT of 250V at switch on so the valve is obviously in good order. There is no heater glow at all from the valve even in complete darkness and the HT comes up almost instantly at switch on which is interesting. So the next part of the plan will be to reinstate the capacitor block and then to replace the main coil assembly. Using a couple of temporary 60 & 100pf caps, it should be possible to hopefully receive something with an aerial connected. I can connect the secondary of the coupling transformer to an external amp for testing. More fun in store for tomorrow night I think! All the best Nick |
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23rd Aug 2018, 10:19 am | #12 |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
As I more usually play with televisions, I am used to the chassis metalwork being connected directly to mains neutral (or live as the case maybe!). Therefore a significant potential will not exist between the chassis and earth.
Whilst testing the mains transformer, I measured the voltage between chassis and earth. I was concerned to find it was 140V. There were no other components connected to the chassis from the mains. Just the transformer metalwork. The chassis was in effect 'floating' at whatever potential it wished to assume above earth. The insulation resistance of the transformer had been measured at at least 50 meg. I suspected these were not 'real' volts, ie ones that could supply current! They were also being measured by a DVM which is high impedance. Connecting the Avo between the chassis and earth, I could not measure any current whatsoever. Measuring the voltage with the AVO, resulted in slight deflection of the needle irrespective of the voltage range selected. The resistance of the Avo was enough to get rid of the measured voltage completely. So my conclusion was it was not anything to be concerned about. There has been much discussion about the benefits or otherwise, of earthing the chassis of a radio fed from a transformer. This would seem a good enough reason to earth it just to remove that stray potential. I have to replace the mains lead anyway as it has crumbled to dust. It is round cotton braided stuff which seems to be available in three core format. I had been wondering whether to earth it or not and this has decided me in favour! Cheers Nick |
25th Aug 2018, 11:15 pm | #13 |
Octode
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
I have now re-instated the capacitor block and put everything else back together that had to be removed to get it out!
Time to find out if the REN904 triode is any good or not. This is the only valve that does anything at RF in this TRF set- Aerial goes into it and audio comes out of it: how simple is that After the instant warm up of the rectifier, the REN904 takes about a week to get it's cathode to a temperature whereby it can throw a few handfuls of electrons at the anode!! It seems a long time when I'm sitting looking at it anyway! Monitoring the anode voltage showed it was conducting perfectly adequately. Due to not having an output valve yet, I connected the secondary of the interstage transformer to the audio input of my Hacker radio. touching the grid of the triode produced a loud, healthy buzz. Connecting a fairly long aerial and earthing the chassis to a bit of copper pipe stuck in the lawn, allowed a couple of stations to be tuned in on MW. I've never played with a TRF so it was interesting to get the feel of using the reaction/ volume control. With a strong station it actually works quite well. I couldn't get anything useful out of LW though. Earthing the chassis was essential. Without it a huge amount of noise swamped everything. I need to check if the house earth is as effective as the real earth. This radio was purposely designed to be insensitive to reduce the possibility of hearing stations outside Germany. This radio will not really be used to listen to broadcast stations anyway. The chap I'm doing this for wants to listen to period audio from CD and vintage wartime speeches etc. An AM modulator was always on the cards to be used for that purpose, so the next part of the plan is to build a Minimod about which I have read good things! Nick |
27th Aug 2018, 12:17 pm | #14 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Hello Nick.
I thought I'll let you know that it makes awful lot of sense to apply some of the safety/security patches to this - very nice - radio. On Volksempfänger's the VY2 is very fragile with regard to inrush current problems. When you switch the radio on the cold glow wire may get overloaded and tend to melt. This page:- http://www.welt-der-alten-radios.de/...2-253.html#123 (unfortunately only in german, but you may auto-translate it with Google) explains under paragraph "123)Deutscher Kleinempfänger (DKE 38). Reparaturtipps." section "Tipp2" the following: ... add a safety resistor into the lead to the anode of the VY2 (around 300 - 500 Ohm / 2 - 3 Watts). Further, you need a very good ground wire and a good antenna to receive anything. |
27th Aug 2018, 2:20 pm | #15 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Could you restuff the remains of the RES164 with a miniature output valve?
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27th Aug 2018, 9:34 pm | #16 | |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Quote:
Welcome to the Forum and thank you for your comments and the link. There is a whole variety of useful information there. Unfortunately, Google makes a bit of a hash at translating it so much of the sense is lost! There seems to be quite a few different models of Volksempfänger all with different valve line up's. Mine doesn't use the VY2. It uses a RGN354 as the rectifier although that could also suffer the same problem I imagine. My audio output valve is a RES164 which is unfortunately cracked and I am on the hunt for a replacement. I also found that a good aerial and earth were essential in order to receive anything without too much noise. I guess that's one downside of connecting the chassis to mains earth via a 3 core mains lead- you then don't get the option of using a proper ground rod earth. Sam, There doesn't seem to be many valves from the same era that would do as substitutes. I guess there were not many 4Volt pentodes without cathodes made in the UK at that time? I had wondered about grafting a different valve onto the old RES164 base but what to use? Also in view of the great condition of the rest of it, I think it deserves the correct valve, although it pains me to spent £40-50 on a second hand (allegedly tested) one from Ebay. Granted it will be the owner of the radio who spends the money but still, I've never spent more than £1 on a valve before!! Nick |
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28th Aug 2018, 5:20 am | #17 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
You could possibly sub a PM24M you would need to check the other ratings though.
http://r-type.org/exhib/aaa0797.htm Cheers Mike T
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28th Aug 2018, 2:14 pm | #18 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
The PM24M's are becoming difficult to obtain. I was lucky to find a good one on eBay a few weeks ago for my Philips 274A. It was £15 though but worth it for getting the set working well again.
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28th Aug 2018, 11:51 pm | #19 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Thanks for the suggestion of a PM24M. The problem is the heater current listed at 1A. The RES164 is only 0.15A! Can that really be right: it's very low. How can it do anything useful with only 0.6W heater?
Apart from that, it looks an ideal substitute. The mains transformer is quite small and I doubt it would appreciate the extra loading! So is there anything else that's actually available, even with a different base that would do? Cheers Nick |
30th Aug 2018, 12:39 pm | #20 |
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Re: Volksempfanger VE301W People's set
Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but there's an L416D equivalent to the RES164 listed on eBay:-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/38252556376...m=382525563767
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