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Old 13th Jan 2017, 11:14 am   #1
DonaldStott
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Default Which Digital Multimeter?

Having just started on my second restoration (Bush AC91) I thought it was about time I thought about upgrading my trusty, but very cheap Duratool Digital Multimeter.

I've perused the Sticky Thread on "Test equipment for valve radio repair" but most of the stuff discussed is at a level way beyond my understanding or requirements!

What I think I need is a Digital Mulitmeter that can measure AC/DC Current, AC/DC Voltage, Capacitance, Continuity, Diode, Frequency, Resistance??

The FLUKE 115 appears to tick all those boxes but is there anything else I need to factor in and are there other suitable makes/models out there?

Any advice would be warmly welcomed?
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 11:18 am   #2
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

I wouldn't look any further; Fluke IMHO is the way to go.

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 11:21 am   #3
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Likewise, I would heartily recommend Fluke.

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 11:23 am   #4
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Me too.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 11:39 am   #5
threeseven
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Another meter to consider is the following :-

https://www.eevblog.com/product/bm235-multimeter/

This is a highly regarded meter which has sold in large quantities to the enthusiast electronics market.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 12:59 pm   #6
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Never measure frequency with a DMM without buffering or heavy attenuation. The capacitance of the probes can load the circuits and change the frequency very easily. Also the frequency range and resolution is usually very low.

Fluke recommendation here as well if you can afford it. If you can't, while not considered as the safest piece of equipment ever made, but arguably better than your Duratool, the Uni-T UT61E is a pretty good meter as well and can be picked up from Chinese drop shippers on a certain auction site for under £40. Does everything you want. 22,000 count, true RMS, continuity without lag unlike the 115. It has a frequency counter good to 50MHz ish in it (if you buffer or attenuate the signal a bit to kill the loading), nice big clear display, component test fixture and RS232 connectivity. I've knocked mine off the bench as many times as the Flukes and it's as robust.

With respect to safety, unless you're working on bus bars, industrial installations etc, there isn't much in it despite hype to the contrary (a Fluke 77 will still make a nice firework display if you do something stupid - I've done it which is why mine only does volts DC now )
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 1:11 pm   #7
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

You really don't need a sophisticated professional meter to work on old radios, though it's obviously your money to spend as you wish, and lots of people find pleasure in owning and using this sort of high quality test gear.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 1:24 pm   #8
DonaldStott
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Thanks guys for your suggestions and recommendations.

threeseven - your recommended EEVblog BM235 Multimeter has sold in such large quantities that it's now "Currently unavailable"!

MrBungle - your recommended Signstek UNI-T UT61E looks like a real bargain despite some concerns about build quality etc. Not sure what you mean by "22,000 count, true RMS, continuity without lag unlike the 115" - sorry?

Mr Sherwin - just thought I'd treat myself to a belated Christmas present but if the consensus is that I don't need to upgrade then I won't. How do I check for heater continuity in valves?
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Last edited by DonaldStott; 13th Jan 2017 at 1:25 pm. Reason: Typo
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 1:45 pm   #9
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

I have 6 Fluke DVM's, which I bought when I needed to set up multiple measurements simultaneously.

I also bought two Chinese meters last year, which I have skinned and installed as a cheap way of doing a digital panel meter, hardwiring the switches to get the range that I needed.

Basically beware. The probes had "Cat IV" embossed on them. Cat IV equipment is for working on high energy, low voltage (ie 240V AC) circuits - for example the incoming tails into a property, or high energy switchgear - so-called utility level, before there are fuses and breakers to protect you. There are stringent regs and approvals relating to this. Probes have to be physically long, the exposed tip has to be less than 4mm and the wires have to be double insulated. I have Fluke Cat IV leads for a reason.

The Chinese "Cat IV" ones were just regular probes - single insulated with long prongs on the end. If you trusted the marking and did not know better you could easily get arc flashover, which on high energy circuits kills, or at best causes massive burns.

There is an excellent introduction into categories in this you-tube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTGs6GXB8io

What is the relevance to working on valved gear? Well nothing at the level of danger of working on Cat IV (or III) stuff. But if you slip with a probe and short something to ground, or short the tips together when taking a measurement, it will spoil your day. Been there and got the badges. Nothing so frustrating as fixing something you have blown up because of a slipped probe.

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 2:01 pm   #10
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Oh - and here is a Fluke vid relating to categories, what they mean, and the grim consequences of getting it wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzwN8yibjjA

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 2:03 pm   #11
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

With Test Equipment, I always get the impression that those members who are professional engineers, and use hi-grade equipment at work, feel unhappy if they don't have hi-grade kit at home.

For hobbyist use, I think the hi-grade is often a bit of luxury. Regarding Chinese DMM's, some I would avoid and others are pretty good, I think the latter includes the Uni-T brand.

A definition of 'Quality'; Adequacy for purpose.

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 2:09 pm   #12
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

If you are looking at Fluke then it may also be worth looking at Keysight (formerly Agilent) - they're a little cheaper for a similar meter (the U1232A). I've used one of these for a while with no problems - apart from the annoying tune it plays every time you switch it on.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 2:10 pm   #13
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

You check for heater continuity by measuring the resistance between the pins. You don't even need a meter to do this - you can use one of those screwdrivers with a battery and LED in the handle.

There is no right or wrong answer as to whether you need a better meter or not. From a purely practical point of view, if you're just going to work on domestic valve radios then you probably don't. It's very much down to personal preference.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 2:10 pm   #14
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldStott View Post
Thanks guys for your suggestions and recommendations.

threeseven - your recommended EEVblog BM235 Multimeter has sold in such large quantities that it's now "Currently unavailable"!
Just means he is currently out of stock. Demand is high and stock can go fast.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 3:23 pm   #15
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

The Fluke 115 looks like it can only measure current to a resolution of 1mA. For HT use this might be a problem if you want to measure (say) 2.7mA from an HT rail. This limitation would bug me a lot. If you ever want to tinker with low current circuits then this meter would be fairly useless. Even my 35 year old Maplin Gold DMM can measure dc current down to 0.1uA.

I chose this meter very carefully when I was a student as it has a fast continuity beeper (fastest in the west!) and it can measure low currents (for low power CMOS stuff including MCUs), it can measure capacitance, it also has a thermocouple for temperature.

The DC resistance only resolves to 0.1 ohm on the Fluke 115. This is probably OK for most jobs but I think 0.01 ohm resolution can be useful too.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 3:24 pm   #16
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by threeseven View Post
Just means he is currently out of stock. Demand is high and stock can go fast.
Stocks are available in the UK from the supplier Semicom Ltd in Manchester, or via Amazon or Ebay.

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 3:29 pm   #17
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ View Post
With Test Equipment, I always get the impression that those members who are professional engineers, and use hi-grade equipment at work, feel unhappy if they don't have hi-grade kit at home.
Well, all that Fluke stuff I've been batting on about is hobby use. It is the tip of an exceptionally large obsession iceberg with test equipment.

But you're right - I spent my career in professional electronics, in a very broad sense. And as I get older, I become more determined to get older still and not vapourise myself!

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Old 13th Jan 2017, 3:30 pm   #18
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
You really don't need a sophisticated professional meter to work on old radios, though it's obviously your money to spend as you wish, and lots of people find pleasure in owning and using this sort of high quality test gear.
I'd wholeheartedly second that view. Ask what multimeter to buy - many will say Fluke, ask what scope to buy - it must be a Tek. Really, it's a topic that crops up regularly and tends to generate more heat than light.

For the price of a Fluke multimeter, you can get an excellent meter which will meet all your needs for no more than fifteen pounds - namely, the Toolzone EL060, which is well regarded and has an excellent spec. Large digits, auto shut off, overload protected etc. Cheap, but not cheap tat. I've had one for some years now and use it daily. You can read the full specification here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Size-...-/321364987642

With the money left over from what a Fluke would cost, you can put together a very useful kit of other test gear and tools. Next on my list would be a signal tracer/injector which - after a multimeter in the piece of test gear I most often use for speedily diagnosing faults on non-working radios to pinpoint which stage(s) of the set aren't working. I also have a couple of the Chinese digital 'multi testers' which test resistors, capacitors, (including ESR), inductors, transistors and FETs. No more than a tenner - in three years, I've yet to change a battery in one, but again, ask what transistor tester to buy, and many will say right away: 'It has to be an Atlas'.

I have a frequency counter which goes up to 1 GHz but find little use for it when restoring radios so that wouldn't be on my 'must have' list. Likewise, whilst a signal generator is useful, the only time I tend to use one is when a set has been tampered with and is clearly out of alignment. As often as not, when I check the alignment of a radio, the generator only confirms that all is well.

Presumably you've already got a basic tool kit together - soldering iron(s) 15 & 40 Watt or a cheap soldering station, wire snips and strippers, BA nut spinners, fine-nosed pliers, solder sucker etc.

A basic scope is just a 'nice to have item', way down the list for radio restoration.

Just my thoughts on the subject - like Paul, I wouldn't presume to lecture others on how they should spend their hard earned cash if the enjoy owning what are seen as 'premium brands' of test gear or anything else. Many derive much enjoyment simply from ownership, and some will have a collection. It bring to mind a Hyundai advert some time ago: 'If you want a car, buy a Hyundai - if you want a badge, join the Scouts'. Quite so. (I do have a Hyundia!).

Good luck in your endeavours Donald, whatever you decide to buy.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 3:43 pm   #19
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Despite having access to a lot of good quality, calibrated kit at work, I have used a DMM that I bought from Cirkit (remember them?) years ago which does everything I want at home. I sometimes take it to work to compare it with my calibrated meter but it is always within tolerance. If I want to measure frequency, capacitance etc I have dedicated meters for this, designed for purpose, even though my multimeter has these additional functions. I find for general repair work you don't need a fancy meter. On occasion, if it's a really tricky job, I borrow the good stuff from work, but this is rare.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 3:43 pm   #20
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Default Re: Which Digital Multimeter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldStott View Post
threeseven - your recommended EEVblog BM235 Multimeter has sold in such large quantities that it's now "Currently unavailable"!
The EEVBlog meter is basically a Brymen BM235 with better probes and blue colouring. The original Brymen meters are also said to be quite good, but are difficult to get in the UK. There is a European distributor in Poland I believe. (link here: http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm235/p...meters/brymen/)

I needed a new DMM a while ago to replace my cheapie, and ended up going for a second hand Fluke 177. I can't really fault it so far. With hindsight the 179 might have been slightly better as it has a thermocouple.

Last edited by Voxophone; 13th Jan 2017 at 3:49 pm.
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