Pye poisoning - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

stephanie · 14th Apr 2006, 6:16 pm

In another category and thread on this Forum, I mentioned reading an article about one of these Pye "Rising Sun" sets that suffered from bad crumbling Zamak.

Anyway, here's that repairman's account of how he ressurected one of these beasts, out of the bits of THREE of these sets! Now that's what I call dedication.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/p.foden/pye.htm

ianj · 14th Apr 2006, 11:01 pm

Many of the surviving sunrise sets now no longer work because of the mazak problem--but they didnt reckon on people like us trying to ressurrect 80 year old radio sets, did they!!

Brian R Pateman · 15th Apr 2006, 3:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianj

Many of the surviving sunrise sets now no longer work because of the mazak problem--but they didnt reckon on people like us trying to ressurrect 80 year old radio sets, did they!!

No, they certainly did not!

These - and all of the other things we love - were intended as consumer items, with a finite life.

It is a testament to good design and manufacturing techniques that there are so many 70 / 80 year old sets around for us to work on.

I wonder how many of todays items designed for a throwaway age and wrought in the sweatshops of the far east will still be functional in 2086?

Regards,

JoshWard · 15th Apr 2006, 3:30 pm

I have encountered Mazak before from when I collected (and still have the collection) Dinky and Corgi model cars. The early Dinky's would often rot due to people thrwoing their cigarette butt's into the liquid metal (in the famous Binn's Road factory) this would then cause a chemical reaction and hey presto the thing gets covered in fatigue and collapses before your very eyes. Another good reason to never smoke. Josh.

Andy Day · 16th Apr 2006, 6:10 pm

In the motorcycle restoration world, and certainly in industry - when we had one - Mazak's refered to as "Monkey metal". Don't know what they mean!

JoshWard · 17th Apr 2006, 10:13 am

As far as i'm aware it is generally called monkey metal anyway. Josh.

stephanie · 17th Apr 2006, 7:25 pm

Also called "pot metal"

I wonder if that's because whoever dreamed up this alloy was smoking pot at the time, or because this sorry sludge is cooked up in a pot.

I can't see how a cooking pot can be made out of this junk.

brianc · 17th Apr 2006, 7:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshWard

The early Dinky's would often rot due to people thrwoing their cigarette butt's into the liquid metal (in the famous Binn's Road factory) this would then cause a chemical reaction and hey presto the thing gets covered in fatigue and collapses before your very eyes.

I wonder is something similar did happen in the Pye factories. I have an AC4D in which the Mazac (aka Muckite) castings for the tuning Cap are in terrible shape. However, a P/AC I am working on at the moment has a 3 gang tuning C where Mazak is used for both rotors and stators and the castings are perfect! Incidentally, the 3 gang rotor is a single casting! There is a fair amount of rust on the steel framework of the tuning gang but absolutely no problem with the Mazak. This does suggest that there were huge variations in the longevity, probably due to alloy contamination during manufacture.

Brian

Kat Manton · 18th Apr 2006, 12:05 am

Hi,

I've encountered this horrible stuff in the form of door-handles etc. on classic cars. Another name I've heard of (and tend to use myself) is "fromage/metal alloy". From crumbling remains I've seen it it seems like some deranged scientist somewhere managed to perfect a technique for alloying Wensleydale and zinc; then amazingly managed to sell the formula as being useful for something.

Regards, Kat

Mike Phelan · 18th Apr 2006, 8:25 am

Mazak is even worse if you chrome plate it - the boot hinges on my DS has them, complete with bubbles, because it is the "posh" Pallas model - the base models D Special and D Super 5 used aluminium alloy - much better!

The stuff also "grows" - one of my Austin 7 speedos did and I had to fabricate some of the parts from brass.

Regarding the Pye problem, this is not a set that I can remember handling - precisely what components in the tuning gang are made from Mazak? I assume the frames and spindle? Are there some pictures anywhere? I was wondering if it was possible to make them.

Drifton · 18th Apr 2006, 11:48 am

If memory serves me correctly, Mazak was developed primarily for the newspaper printing trade where a semi-cylindrical sheet of news type that clamps onto the printing rollers is centrifugaly cast in a sort of paper mould with a similar but tougher consistency to an egg carton. Therefore a reasonably hard wearing metal with a very low melting point was required.

After the days printing run it was then melted down and reused, so it was never really formulated for permanent castings.

Cheers,
Dave.

Biggles · 18th Apr 2006, 12:27 pm

I've seen this stuff inside reel to reel tape machines and it literally crumbles if you touch it, rendering the whole deck beyond repair.

Biggles.

14th Apr 2006, 6:16 pm	#1
stephanie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Bern, North Carolina, USA Posts: 346	Pye poisoning In another category and thread on this Forum, I mentioned reading an article about one of these Pye "Rising Sun" sets that suffered from bad crumbling Zamak. Anyway, here's that repairman's account of how he ressurected one of these beasts, out of the bits of THREE of these sets! Now that's what I call dedication. http://web.ukonline.co.uk/p.foden/pye.htm

14th Apr 2006, 11:01 pm	#2
ianj Heptode Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cheltenham Spa, Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 525	Re: Pye poisoning Many of the surviving sunrise sets now no longer work because of the mazak problem--but they didnt reckon on people like us trying to ressurrect 80 year old radio sets, did they!!

15th Apr 2006, 3:30 pm	#4
JoshWard Octode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 1,962	Re: Pye poisoning I have encountered Mazak before from when I collected (and still have the collection) Dinky and Corgi model cars. The early Dinky's would often rot due to people thrwoing their cigarette butt's into the liquid metal (in the famous Binn's Road factory) this would then cause a chemical reaction and hey presto the thing gets covered in fatigue and collapses before your very eyes. Another good reason to never smoke. Josh.

16th Apr 2006, 6:10 pm	#5
Andy Day Pentode Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 154	Re: Pye poisoning In the motorcycle restoration world, and certainly in industry - when we had one - Mazak's refered to as "Monkey metal". Don't know what they mean! __________________ The older I get, the faster I was!

17th Apr 2006, 10:13 am	#6
JoshWard Octode Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 1,962	Re: Pye poisoning As far as i'm aware it is generally called monkey metal anyway. Josh.

17th Apr 2006, 7:25 pm	#7
stephanie Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Bern, North Carolina, USA Posts: 346	Re: Pye poisoning Also called "pot metal" I wonder if that's because whoever dreamed up this alloy was smoking pot at the time, or because this sorry sludge is cooked up in a pot. I can't see how a cooking pot can be made out of this junk.

18th Apr 2006, 12:05 am	#9
Kat Manton Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,700	Re: Pye poisoning Hi, I've encountered this horrible stuff in the form of door-handles etc. on classic cars. Another name I've heard of (and tend to use myself) is "fromage/metal alloy". From crumbling remains I've seen it it seems like some deranged scientist somewhere managed to perfect a technique for alloying Wensleydale and zinc; then amazingly managed to sell the formula as being useful for something. Regards, Kat

18th Apr 2006, 8:25 am	#10
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Pye poisoning Mazak is even worse if you chrome plate it - the boot hinges on my DS has them, complete with bubbles, because it is the "posh" Pallas model - the base models D Special and D Super 5 used aluminium alloy - much better! The stuff also "grows" - one of my Austin 7 speedos did and I had to fabricate some of the parts from brass. Regarding the Pye problem, this is not a set that I can remember handling - precisely what components in the tuning gang are made from Mazak? I assume the frames and spindle? Are there some pictures anywhere? I was wondering if it was possible to make them. __________________ Mike.

18th Apr 2006, 11:48 am	#11
Drifton Pentode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cambridge... in that country formally know as 'Great Britain' Posts: 54	Re: Pye poisoning If memory serves me correctly, Mazak was developed primarily for the newspaper printing trade where a semi-cylindrical sheet of news type that clamps onto the printing rollers is centrifugaly cast in a sort of paper mould with a similar but tougher consistency to an egg carton. Therefore a reasonably hard wearing metal with a very low melting point was required. After the days printing run it was then melted down and reused, so it was never really formulated for permanent castings. Cheers, Dave. __________________ "Ah! The news".CLICK-nothing-nothing-still nothing-"whistle-zzz...and now for the weather”. "Hmph"!

18th Apr 2006, 12:27 pm	#12
Biggles Rest in Peace Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hexham, Northumberland, UK. Posts: 2,234	Re: Pye poisoning I've seen this stuff inside reel to reel tape machines and it literally crumbles if you touch it, rendering the whole deck beyond repair. Biggles.