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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 15th Oct 2021, 4:09 pm   #1
ekcopyephilips
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Default Pye black box

Hi everyone

I’ve seen this in the local junk emporium for the last year. Decided on a whim today to see if it was still there. It was, at a price I was willing to pay too. So now it’s in my possession.

So a few questions. Should it have an on off switch as there is a hole there for a toggle switch but no switch.

Any tips for the deck restoration. I’ve never attempted a record player before so don’t want to break it before I start.

Interestingly the cabinet has a stamp inside that says John dunster and sons Stratford. We’re they supplying cabinets to Pye? Unfortunately no date stamps inside, does anyone know a date range of when this was made?

When I was at Sanyo in the 90s one of the older guys in his 60s said he had worked there in the 50s when it was a Pye factory. He said that one of his first jobs was assembling black boxes. So this one could have been made in Lowestoft.

Cheers

Mike
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 5:31 pm   #2
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Default Re: Pye black box

Hello Mike,

They all have that hole! Not sure what its intended purpose is, though I’ve seen external LS sockets fitted by dealers. I suspect Edward Huggins will know! I’d be more concerned by the woodworm

Yours has the rarer Collaro single play deck.

I think your amp is the version with ultra linear taps. Do check that the primary has continuity on both halves, as they’re notorious for going open on one side.

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Old 15th Oct 2021, 5:56 pm   #3
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Default Re: Pye black box

I also noticed the woodworm holes which is of some concern, also it looks as if some of the veneer has chipped off. I’m no expert on wood cabinet restoration but if you take a look at the section on cabinets you will find plenty of information and advice. When I restored my BB I used Danish Oil, which came up ok.
John
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 5:56 pm   #4
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Default Re: Pye black box

On the US Columbia 360 parent that hole was for the external speaker socket. I don't think Pye ever used it.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 8:44 pm   #5
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Default Re: Pye black box

There's a sticky on deck restoration and lots of videos on YouTube.

Amazon sell a cheap veneer pack with lots of veneer samples so you should find something to match the missing bits

Use a syringe to inject woodworm killer directly into the holes. Treat it multiple times and then fill the holes with wax

Pye BBs are tricky to restore. There are multiple threads on failed attempts. I've never done a valve BB myself but I understand the output transformer is often open circuit and the valve holders tend to have many broken pins causing intermittent connections. Change one thing at a time and check your work.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 9:02 pm   #6
Lucien Nunes
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Default Re: Pye black box

Quote:
Unfortunately no date stamps inside, does anyone know a date range of when this was made?
The TCC electrolytic can bears the date code 'KJ' which is September 1953 or 1954. I know year letter 'R' stands for 1960 but I can't recall whether 'O' is omitted from the sequence.
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 7:45 am   #7
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Default Re: Pye black box

This is likely to be a mid/late 1954 model. It will have been made in Lowestoft. No toggle switches were ever fitted. The transformers are not tropicalised but even so, I still cannot tell for sure which version of the EL42 amplifier this is - whether it be UL or Triode connected. Even if the OP has experience of restoring vintage valved equipment, these are not easy to make good. I don't recognise that "John Dunster" reference. They could have made the cabinet, but this was before my time with Pye. Interesting to recall that whilst the early BBs always used BSR Autochangers, for the more rare single player option, Collaro were chosen over the then available BSR Regent or HF100 decks. What are the OP's plans for this as much work, covering various disciplines, will be needed here?
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 3:39 pm   #8
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Default Re: Pye black box

Hi Edward.

Thanks for replying to the post I’m sure your help will be invaluable to me. I hope to get it working as it ought to.
As for the cabinet it needs the mahogany veneer replacing at the front and I want to just restore it back to a nice condition.
I did have a thought this morning and wondered if I could somehow have a Bluetooth module inside to be able to play music on my phone through the amp. Not sure yet if I will but anything like this would have to be easily removable as I would like it to be as original as possible.
I’ve never taken apart a record deck before so any hints here are gratefully received. It certainly won’t be painted black and have ugly chrome knobs fitted. I’ll get the serial number off the amp and try and work out what version it is.

Cheers

Mike
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 4:56 pm   #9
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Pye black box

The tappings on the OPTX will confirm the amplifier version. As for the Collaro deck, you'll need to remove the platter and check the condition of the idler wheel and motor stepped spindle. At this stage, do not attempt to power it up. I think you may be long way from trying it with that Collaro Studio "O" cartridge........
What skills do you have in vintage valve electronics?
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 6:37 pm   #10
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Default Re: Pye black box

Doesn't FIVE connections to the primary signify UL?
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Old 17th Oct 2021, 7:54 am   #11
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Default Re: Pye black box

Hi Edward.

Not a huge amount of experience with valve equipment in fault finding. On a Pye 697 tv I found an O/C line hold control that was making one of the line output valves anode glow red. Otherwise it’s just been restoration on radios and TVs. Luckily they all worked so I’ve never had to chase any faults.
Only other thing I heard about valve amps is to never run them with speakers disconnected, I forget the reason why but it made sense.

Cheers

Mike
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Old 17th Oct 2021, 6:29 pm   #12
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Default Re: Pye black box

Hi all

This weekend I’ve dismantled the turntable and thoroughly cleaned off all the old grease and re-assembled. The motor was virtually stuck solid. One the motor bearings had been cleaned and oiled it then spun freely. I applied power and checked the operation and speed selection and adjusted the mechanism as necessary.

Next onto the amplifier.

Cheers

Mike
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Old 17th Oct 2021, 6:34 pm   #13
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Default Re: Pye black box

Hi all

So as others have previously suggested, I think I have a cooked transformer. Lots of wax over the wiring and very odd resistance readings. So I think I will need to end up sending this to Ed for a rewind.

You may be just able to see from the ficus that one of the nasty brown hunts capacitors has a cracked case, could this failure have caused the transformer to cook? I presume one of the nasty hunts is a ‘that’ capacitor.

Cheers

Mike
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Old 17th Oct 2021, 7:14 pm   #14
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Default Re: Pye black box

You have done a very nice job cleaning up the deck.
I took a look at service data and they all have five connections to primary of output tx. The primary resistance quoted from “start to finish “ is:
BBA & BBT = 200 ohms.
BBH mk.2 = 1600 ohms.
BBH not given.
I just thought that would be of some interest to you.
John
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Old 17th Oct 2021, 11:28 pm   #15
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Default Re: Pye black box

Some wax loss may not indicate the transformer is u/s. It can be quite difficult to make good contact with your probe onto old solder joints and some DMM's don't like so much inductance when measuring resistance.

Mains transformer:
Primary: COM to 235 should measure 50 ohms
Secondary: 260 to other 260 should measure 400 ohms

Output transformer
Primary: Outer pair of row of 5 should measure 1600 ohms
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Old 22nd Oct 2021, 7:37 pm   #16
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Default Re: Pye black box

Hi all

Well the op tx has an oc primary on one side. So it needs a rewind. Oh well

Cheers

Mike
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 7:51 am   #17
Edward Huggins
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Don't worry, it's a well known fault. Whilst that transformer is unique, help is at hand from the TX specialists here.....
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