My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

jascha · 12th Oct 2021, 4:59 pm

Hi everyone,

I thought I share my recent modification that I came up, made out of a piece of stainless steel and which I wanted to do for some time, to stop the annoying rattling of reels during fast winding for Ferrograph machines and similar others that use the same deck.
I came up with an idea of extending the motor shaft by an extra 1 cm or so, but to the same width as the reel tables themselves. The extra bit screws onto the motor shaft which has been tapped with an M4 tap. With ferrograph motors, the shaft is held to the rotor by a collet type system which means it can be dismantled down to the bare shaft and then put in a lathe for machining. The extra pin was machined out of a piece of stainless steel stock and rounded off with a file.
The motor was then fully reassembled and the pin fitted only at the end after the reel table was fitted onto the shaft as that has to go on last. The reels are then secured to the tables with rubber plugs, commonly used on Akai, Sony, Roberts, Ferguson etc.

I intend to modify my other Ferrograph too, perhaps this time using a screw on bakelite knob which will secure the reels in place, rather than rubber holders.

Hope you all like this idea. I attach photos and a link to a short Youtube video I made.

Cheers.
https://youtu.be/h2JAop_kRS4

Top Cap · 12th Oct 2021, 6:35 pm

It seemed a stupid idea, like the Mazda Octal valve base, to have a tape deck that only took (without problems) a special spring loaded 7" reel. I used to have a couple of such reels but they never seemed to like being fitted to a standard reel holder. Not sure where they are now but I think I had already removed the hubs innards to make them fit better to my tape recorder which then was a Robuk machine.

jascha · 12th Oct 2021, 7:29 pm

The issue with the Ferrograph decks is that the reel hubs have a very small diameter base and therefore reels don’t have enough support, compared to most other machines. It’s the only modification I could think of as there’s no way to enlarge the base diameter of the reel hubs to provide more support. It’s much better now at least and reel labels won’t get marked or damaged too.

TIMTAPE · 12th Oct 2021, 10:57 pm

I think the series 7 had a thread tapped in the shaft for a screw in reel retainer, like a Nagra.

jascha · 12th Oct 2021, 11:03 pm

It must have a different style of reel hub I guess then to accommodate a thread at the top end of the spindle. This mod works well but I have not yet tried to see if I can fit Ferrograph reels as they’re usually quite a tight fit, but if not then I just unscrew the extra part I added and just use the machine as originally intended with those types of reels.

DMcMahon · 12th Oct 2021, 11:23 pm

My series 7's have the screw on reel retainers, they have a female threaded hole that screws onto a male threaded stud that screws into the reel table.

David

jascha · 13th Oct 2021, 9:04 am

That’s a different design as the motor shaft protrudes beyond the reel hubs more than most on earlier Ferrograph machines, which can accommodate a thread to be machined on the shaft. The only option for earlier machines is to tap an internal thread and screw on a fastener to lock the reels in place, which thanks to the way their built they can be fully dismantled down to the bare shaft for easy machining on a lathe.

Ted Kendall · 13th Oct 2021, 9:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcMahon

My series 7's have the screw on reel retainers, they have a female threaded hole that screws onto a male threaded stud that screws into the reel table.

Many of the modified features on the 7 came about as a result of a reader survey in Tape Recorder around 1966 - a belated attempt by Ferrograph to find out what the market wanted as opposed to issuing what they deemed was good for it. And then they made the 7...

jascha · 13th Oct 2021, 9:35 am

I see! I bet one of the issues was this very same problem of rattling spools! Never too late I guess and a solution can be found as demonstrated. Each motor takes a bit of time, around 2 hours from start to finish, a considerable time spent however trying to fit back those metal washers that sit between the motor and the chassis! They’re a nightmare!

barrymagrec · 13th Oct 2021, 10:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcMahon

My series 7's have the screw on reel retainers, they have a female threaded hole that screws onto a male threaded stud that screws into the reel table.

Many of the modified features on the 7 came about as a result of a reader survey in Tape Recorder around 1966 - a belated attempt by Ferrograph to find out what the market wanted as opposed to issuing what they deemed was good for it. And then they made the 7...

When the A77 came out the Ferrograph sales team must have wanted to slit their own throats.

jascha · 13th Oct 2021, 10:12 am

Surely also by the time the G36 came out 🤣

DMcMahon · 13th Oct 2021, 10:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jascha

The only option for earlier machines is to tap an internal thread and screw on a fastener to lock the reels in place, which thanks to the way their built they can be fully dismantled down to the bare shaft for easy machining on a lathe.

Only easy if you have a lathe and know how to use it

David

jascha · 13th Oct 2021, 12:01 pm

That’s true, however a lathe might not be needed as I used an M4 tap to make the threads on the shafts and as the extra pin is concerned I drilled it and tapped it with the same M4 tap and fitted an M4 ready made thread from a standard bolt. The latte is handy of course for cantering the holes and if necessary for reducing the pin to the right diameter.

12th Oct 2021, 4:59 pm	#1
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind Hi everyone, I thought I share my recent modification that I came up, made out of a piece of stainless steel and which I wanted to do for some time, to stop the annoying rattling of reels during fast winding for Ferrograph machines and similar others that use the same deck. I came up with an idea of extending the motor shaft by an extra 1 cm or so, but to the same width as the reel tables themselves. The extra bit screws onto the motor shaft which has been tapped with an M4 tap. With ferrograph motors, the shaft is held to the rotor by a collet type system which means it can be dismantled down to the bare shaft and then put in a lathe for machining. The extra pin was machined out of a piece of stainless steel stock and rounded off with a file. The motor was then fully reassembled and the pin fitted only at the end after the reel table was fitted onto the shaft as that has to go on last. The reels are then secured to the tables with rubber plugs, commonly used on Akai, Sony, Roberts, Ferguson etc. I intend to modify my other Ferrograph too, perhaps this time using a screw on bakelite knob which will secure the reels in place, rather than rubber holders. Hope you all like this idea. I attach photos and a link to a short Youtube video I made. Cheers. https://youtu.be/h2JAop_kRS4 Attached Thumbnails Last edited by jascha; 12th Oct 2021 at 5:06 pm.

12th Oct 2021, 6:35 pm	#2
Top Cap Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 1,270	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind It seemed a stupid idea, like the Mazda Octal valve base, to have a tape deck that only took (without problems) a special spring loaded 7" reel. I used to have a couple of such reels but they never seemed to like being fitted to a standard reel holder. Not sure where they are now but I think I had already removed the hubs innards to make them fit better to my tape recorder which then was a Robuk machine. __________________ Whether the Top Cap is Grid or Anode - touching it will give you a buzz either way!

12th Oct 2021, 7:29 pm	#3
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind The issue with the Ferrograph decks is that the reel hubs have a very small diameter base and therefore reels don’t have enough support, compared to most other machines. It’s the only modification I could think of as there’s no way to enlarge the base diameter of the reel hubs to provide more support. It’s much better now at least and reel labels won’t get marked or damaged too.

12th Oct 2021, 10:57 pm	#4
TIMTAPE Octode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,969	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind I think the series 7 had a thread tapped in the shaft for a screw in reel retainer, like a Nagra.

12th Oct 2021, 11:03 pm	#5
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind It must have a different style of reel hub I guess then to accommodate a thread at the top end of the spindle. This mod works well but I have not yet tried to see if I can fit Ferrograph reels as they’re usually quite a tight fit, but if not then I just unscrew the extra part I added and just use the machine as originally intended with those types of reels.

12th Oct 2021, 11:23 pm	#6
DMcMahon Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK. Posts: 6,600	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind My series 7's have the screw on reel retainers, they have a female threaded hole that screws onto a male threaded stud that screws into the reel table. David Attached Thumbnails

13th Oct 2021, 9:04 am	#7
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind That’s a different design as the motor shaft protrudes beyond the reel hubs more than most on earlier Ferrograph machines, which can accommodate a thread to be machined on the shaft. The only option for earlier machines is to tap an internal thread and screw on a fastener to lock the reels in place, which thanks to the way their built they can be fully dismantled down to the bare shaft for easy machining on a lathe.

13th Oct 2021, 9:35 am	#9
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind I see! I bet one of the issues was this very same problem of rattling spools! Never too late I guess and a solution can be found as demonstrated. Each motor takes a bit of time, around 2 hours from start to finish, a considerable time spent however trying to fit back those metal washers that sit between the motor and the chassis! They’re a nightmare!

13th Oct 2021, 10:12 am	#11
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind Surely also by the time the G36 came out 🤣

13th Oct 2021, 12:01 pm	#13
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: My Ferrograph modification to silence rattling reels during fast wind That’s true, however a lathe might not be needed as I used an M4 tap to make the threads on the shafts and as the extra pin is concerned I drilled it and tapped it with the same M4 tap and fitted an M4 ready made thread from a standard bolt. The latte is handy of course for cantering the holes and if necessary for reducing the pin to the right diameter.