Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

dave1950 · 23rd Apr 2018, 8:30 pm

Hi all I'm new here and have a question on a amp/rc combo I found at a yard sale. I was wondering if this was original or someone customized this?
The set consists of a C-10 Amplifier in the bottom and Collaro RC-457 on the top in a solid oak cabinet. It has 2 inputs 1) mic 2) phono and a mic volume phono volume and tone knob. If this was a custom job I'm wondering if this was an attempt at a karaoke setup ahead of its time??

thx Dave

Tractorfan · 23rd Apr 2018, 8:51 pm

Hi,
I may be wrong, but the cabinet is very reminiscent of a His Master's voice 104 wind up gramophone. The control panel looks to be fitted where the sound came out via two small doors used to control the volume. Can you see any small filled in hole where a handle was once fitted?
The few I've seen in the past usually had much darker wood, though.
Cheers, Pete.

dave1950 · 23rd Apr 2018, 9:08 pm

Thanks Pete, there is a hole plugged in the front of the cabinet and you are right the cabinet does look like the 104 gramophone case. Did they have one where the crank was on the front though? Also where the amp is the panel looks like its been changed.
Thanks, Dave

Tractorfan · 23rd Apr 2018, 9:59 pm

Hi,
I don't recall seeing any with the crank at the front. It's nearly always on the right hand side. But don't quote me on that.
Cheers, Pete.

RojDW48 · 23rd Apr 2018, 11:26 pm

Yes, some enterprising soul has converted an old tabletop wind up into a 'modern' record player - quite well by the look of it. The front panel has probably been replaced and would have originally consisted of a couple of 'doors' functioning as a rudimentary volume control at the business end of the horn. It has the look of later educational audio aids - maybe a creative teacher with the appropriate skills amazed his/her pupils back in the 50s with some nice music and the ability to 'talk over' the programme? Have you tried it out?

dave1950 · 24th Apr 2018, 12:04 am

Thanks. I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the teacher analysis as the sale I got this at was in the basement of a school. So far I have plugged it in and the amp fires up ok and the turntable seems to be working I'm wondering roughly what year this would have been done?

Nickthedentist · 24th Apr 2018, 8:43 am

Late 1950s, early 1960s, I would guess. What valves (tubes) does it use.

An interesting thing! It always goes agains the grain to see things chopped about and modified like this, but seeing as most people would have just thrown out the HMV and started from scratch, it's rather nice that someone thought its cabinet was worth preserving and re-using.

Edward Huggins · 24th Apr 2018, 10:13 am

To help with the dating the Collaro RC457 comes from 1957. It's in the quite rare Collaro 2 tone colour combination. I'm not so sure about how that replacement cartridge has been attached to the tone arm - it looks quite bodged on.

Techman · 24th Apr 2018, 2:50 pm

It would probably have been a dark stained oak which has been sanded and re-varnished to a light oak finish. I 'electrified' an old oak cased gramophone similar to yours when I was a kid because the spring had broken in the original clockwork motor. Luckily, what I did was reversible and I still have the gramophone to this day and it's all back to original with original spring driven motor.

It's hard to tell with yours, but it's possible that the lid has been re-hinged on a different side of the cabinet. It also looks like the only ventilation for the amplifier and motor is the grid beside the deck, so you wouldn't want to leave it running with the lid closed, although I guess the speaker is in there somewhere so the lid has to be open to let the sound out. It also looks as though there's no cut out for the mains lead, therefore encouraging you to leave the lid open while operating. Hot electronics need 'convection' ventilation to keep from self destruction, so there would need to be ventilation in the bottom of the cabinet somewhere as well as the top. The trouble with 'homebrew' is that the person putting the thing together doesn't always take important design features into account as they don't have that professional background. I'm just working on the restoration of someones homebrew record player which is featured in a thread in this same section at the moment.

dave1950 · 24th Apr 2018, 6:49 pm

Thanks, I'm not sure what valves are in this as I can't get at them yet. As for the speaker there is an audio jack coming out the back which I guess was used for an external speaker. The cartridge has a astatic NH-3 attached (see pics) I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this but I do like the cabinet.

Dave.

Techman · 25th Apr 2018, 12:01 am

Your latest pictures have confirmed what I thought when I noticed that the hinge was too short for the lid and wondered whether it had been altered to hinge from a different side, and it has. Now you've said that there's no internal speaker and shown that the speaker wire for an external unit comes out through the original 'winder' hole for the clockwork motor I think we can get the full picture of this units construction and history.

I have to be honest and say that it's not a lot of use as it is due to it having no cabinet ventilation with the lid closed and inadequate convection ventilation even with the lid open. Regardless of the possible overheating of the electronics, just think what it would do to any records that you might leave either stacked on the spindle or on the platter itself. You'd have to decide whether you were going to potentially spoil the looks of the cabinet by cutting out some ventilation holes in it or keep it for short term use only and leave it as it is.

Edit: PS, don't power it up without a speaker connected as it can damage the output transformer. Also, there could be some old leaky coupling capacitors that may need checking/replacing so as not to possibly damage the same transformer.

dave1950 · 25th Apr 2018, 12:28 am

Thanks for the info and advice. I think I'm going to replace the components with something newer and maybe use the amp and rc-457 somewhere else or just trade or sell them off.
Thanks, Dave

Techman · 25th Apr 2018, 12:29 am

I think that's probably a good idea, Dave.

Edward Huggins · 25th Apr 2018, 10:09 am

The Collaro deck (particularly in those colors) will sell. You should find that the amp is a self-contained mono amp in its own right. This would serve well as a replacement, low powered, mono amplifier and again woud sell. They could be put out on auction site or even be listed on this Forum.

vidjoman · 25th Apr 2018, 12:03 pm

The Collaro in Red/Gold was typical of those supplied to RCA in the States with an RCA badge on. As you are in Canada I suspect it's probably one of those and 110 volts.

dave1950 · 25th Apr 2018, 4:56 pm

I found an rc-456 on ebay with the same color scheme in a dictograph model.

dave1950 · 25th Apr 2018, 5:38 pm

Also here's some pics of the amp which shows obvious alterations, it does work though. Although I won't be plugging it in from here on as my knowledge is limited in this stuff. The 2 red wires (coming out of the hole on top) were attached to one section of the rc and another wire with an rca jack was plugged in to the phono input. There's also a hole in the middle where a tube or something was so i'm not sure what that's about? I cant find a pic of another c-10 online to compare.
dave

Edward Huggins · 25th Apr 2018, 5:49 pm

Ah, now we can see it, this uses a 6LG output, a more powerful amp than expected. This will give about 6 watts output. For a single-ended amplifier, that's quite loud!

dave1950 · 26th Apr 2018, 9:00 pm

I was wondering what the value of the RC-457 and C-10 Amp in their current condition would be?

Edward Huggins · 27th Apr 2018, 9:48 am

Well, not that much. Collaro (1955-1959) autohangers sell here for around $45-50. The amp is rather unusual, but demand for mono only amps (even if valved) may be low.

23rd Apr 2018, 8:30 pm	#1
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Hi all I'm new here and have a question on a amp/rc combo I found at a yard sale. I was wondering if this was original or someone customized this? The set consists of a C-10 Amplifier in the bottom and Collaro RC-457 on the top in a solid oak cabinet. It has 2 inputs 1) mic 2) phono and a mic volume phono volume and tone knob. If this was a custom job I'm wondering if this was an attempt at a karaoke setup ahead of its time?? thx Dave Attached Thumbnails

23rd Apr 2018, 8:51 pm	#2
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,183	Re: masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Hi, I may be wrong, but the cabinet is very reminiscent of a His Master's voice 104 wind up gramophone. The control panel looks to be fitted where the sound came out via two small doors used to control the volume. Can you see any small filled in hole where a handle was once fitted? The few I've seen in the past usually had much darker wood, though. Cheers, Pete. __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

23rd Apr 2018, 9:08 pm	#3
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Re: masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Thanks Pete, there is a hole plugged in the front of the cabinet and you are right the cabinet does look like the 104 gramophone case. Did they have one where the crank was on the front though? Also where the amp is the panel looks like its been changed. Thanks, Dave

23rd Apr 2018, 9:59 pm	#4
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,183	Re: masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Hi, I don't recall seeing any with the crank at the front. It's nearly always on the right hand side. But don't quote me on that. Cheers, Pete. __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

23rd Apr 2018, 11:26 pm	#5
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Yes, some enterprising soul has converted an old tabletop wind up into a 'modern' record player - quite well by the look of it. The front panel has probably been replaced and would have originally consisted of a couple of 'doors' functioning as a rudimentary volume control at the business end of the horn. It has the look of later educational audio aids - maybe a creative teacher with the appropriate skills amazed his/her pupils back in the 50s with some nice music and the ability to 'talk over' the programme? Have you tried it out? __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

24th Apr 2018, 12:04 am	#6
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Thanks. I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the teacher analysis as the sale I got this at was in the basement of a school. So far I have plugged it in and the amp fires up ok and the turntable seems to be working I'm wondering roughly what year this would have been done?

24th Apr 2018, 8:43 am	#7
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Late 1950s, early 1960s, I would guess. What valves (tubes) does it use. An interesting thing! It always goes agains the grain to see things chopped about and modified like this, but seeing as most people would have just thrown out the HMV and started from scratch, it's rather nice that someone thought its cabinet was worth preserving and re-using.

24th Apr 2018, 10:13 am	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? To help with the dating the Collaro RC457 comes from 1957. It's in the quite rare Collaro 2 tone colour combination. I'm not so sure about how that replacement cartridge has been attached to the tone arm - it looks quite bodged on. __________________ Edward.

24th Apr 2018, 2:50 pm	#9
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? It would probably have been a dark stained oak which has been sanded and re-varnished to a light oak finish. I 'electrified' an old oak cased gramophone similar to yours when I was a kid because the spring had broken in the original clockwork motor. Luckily, what I did was reversible and I still have the gramophone to this day and it's all back to original with original spring driven motor. It's hard to tell with yours, but it's possible that the lid has been re-hinged on a different side of the cabinet. It also looks like the only ventilation for the amplifier and motor is the grid beside the deck, so you wouldn't want to leave it running with the lid closed, although I guess the speaker is in there somewhere so the lid has to be open to let the sound out. It also looks as though there's no cut out for the mains lead, therefore encouraging you to leave the lid open while operating. Hot electronics need 'convection' ventilation to keep from self destruction, so there would need to be ventilation in the bottom of the cabinet somewhere as well as the top. The trouble with 'homebrew' is that the person putting the thing together doesn't always take important design features into account as they don't have that professional background. I'm just working on the restoration of someones homebrew record player which is featured in a thread in this same section at the moment.

24th Apr 2018, 6:49 pm	#10
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Thanks, I'm not sure what valves are in this as I can't get at them yet. As for the speaker there is an audio jack coming out the back which I guess was used for an external speaker. The cartridge has a astatic NH-3 attached (see pics) I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this but I do like the cabinet. Dave. Attached Thumbnails

25th Apr 2018, 12:01 am	#11
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Your latest pictures have confirmed what I thought when I noticed that the hinge was too short for the lid and wondered whether it had been altered to hinge from a different side, and it has. Now you've said that there's no internal speaker and shown that the speaker wire for an external unit comes out through the original 'winder' hole for the clockwork motor I think we can get the full picture of this units construction and history. I have to be honest and say that it's not a lot of use as it is due to it having no cabinet ventilation with the lid closed and inadequate convection ventilation even with the lid open. Regardless of the possible overheating of the electronics, just think what it would do to any records that you might leave either stacked on the spindle or on the platter itself. You'd have to decide whether you were going to potentially spoil the looks of the cabinet by cutting out some ventilation holes in it or keep it for short term use only and leave it as it is. Edit: PS, don't power it up without a speaker connected as it can damage the output transformer. Also, there could be some old leaky coupling capacitors that may need checking/replacing so as not to possibly damage the same transformer.

25th Apr 2018, 12:28 am	#12
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Thanks for the info and advice. I think I'm going to replace the components with something newer and maybe use the amp and rc-457 somewhere else or just trade or sell them off. Thanks, Dave

25th Apr 2018, 12:29 am	#13
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? I think that's probably a good idea, Dave.

25th Apr 2018, 10:09 am	#14
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? The Collaro deck (particularly in those colors) will sell. You should find that the amp is a self-contained mono amp in its own right. This would serve well as a replacement, low powered, mono amplifier and again woud sell. They could be put out on auction site or even be listed on this Forum. __________________ Edward.

25th Apr 2018, 12:03 pm	#15
vidjoman Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Sussex, UK. Posts: 3,326	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? The Collaro in Red/Gold was typical of those supplied to RCA in the States with an RCA badge on. As you are in Canada I suspect it's probably one of those and 110 volts.

25th Apr 2018, 4:56 pm	#16
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? I found an rc-456 on ebay with the same color scheme in a dictograph model. Attached Thumbnails

25th Apr 2018, 5:38 pm	#17
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Also here's some pics of the amp which shows obvious alterations, it does work though. Although I won't be plugging it in from here on as my knowledge is limited in this stuff. The 2 red wires (coming out of the hole on top) were attached to one section of the rc and another wire with an rca jack was plugged in to the phono input. There's also a hole in the middle where a tube or something was so i'm not sure what that's about? I cant find a pic of another c-10 online to compare. dave Attached Thumbnails

25th Apr 2018, 5:49 pm	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Ah, now we can see it, this uses a 6LG output, a more powerful amp than expected. This will give about 6 watts output. For a single-ended amplifier, that's quite loud! __________________ Edward.

26th Apr 2018, 9:00 pm	#19
dave1950 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 14	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? I was wondering what the value of the RC-457 and C-10 Amp in their current condition would be?

27th Apr 2018, 9:48 am	#20
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Masco C-10 Collaro RC-457 Original?? Well, not that much. Collaro (1955-1959) autohangers sell here for around $45-50. The amp is rather unusual, but demand for mono only amps (even if valved) may be low. __________________ Edward.