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Old 18th Aug 2017, 1:57 am   #1
ruudiboyz
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Default Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

I have a Seeburg sunstar vinyl jukebox and it seems like the top 2 cones have become distorted? it's like a fuzzy sound when playing? When song gets to a certain pitch or a lot of instruments join in it causes a irritating to the ear for want of a better word fuzz/static like messy sound? if i sit and listen to lower speakers (bass i think?) it seems fine but when i stand up in line with top cones it distorts? can this be caused by weight balance on tone arm (too heavy)? i have fitted 2 new stylus and noticed arm springs fully adjusted to top weight?
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 12:34 pm   #2
vidjoman
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Difficult to tell what is actually causing the problem. Assuming it's not a worn record - try gently lifting the arm away from the record to reduce the playing weight and see if the sound changes - use a cocktail stick or similar. Or it might need more pressure - only you can check those out. Replacement styli are sometime different to the originals with regard to playing weight. Might be the speakers are not very good and distort when the volume is turned up. Try another speaker to find out.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 3:31 pm   #3
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Thanks for reply, i just thought before i take it apart again to try stylus weight i would ask if it was a possibility that being loaded too heavy could cause this type of problem? or if it was a common fault on this type of box/amp. in regard to volume it makes no difference how high or low it still has this effect. Vinyl are all like new although it's amazing how different sound quality can be between different manufacturers of the vinyl. even now that it has started with this fault some vinyl play loud or have better tone than others of same genre of music. I will take apart at weekend and try the pressure test then if no joy isolate cones or find a replacement to play through.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 3:53 pm   #4
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Might be an idea to connect up a known good sound source to the pickup input to confirm it is the deck. Not sure what type of cartridge it uses? I would guess its ceramic.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 6:31 pm   #5
ruudiboyz
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Reading back my own question i think possibly has the answer? It only seems to happen on the top 2 cones because if i get down level with bottom 2 larger speakers it sounds fine? or am i jumping gun? if it was because of weight set up then surely it would affect all speakers? so with that logic it can only be either the top cones or the channel feeding them or a part of the amp feeding them, a transistor or whatever it filters through? or is that too simplistic haha.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 7:31 pm   #6
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

No, its simply that the high frequency part of the music, including any harmonic distortion, is put out on the smaller speakers using a crossover.

Try connecting an audio source into the pickup input then see if its still distorted. If not then we know its the cartridge or arm setup.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 7:43 pm   #7
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

ok sorry i have limited knowledge so how would i go about doing that? where would i access the pick up input?
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 8:02 pm   #8
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

So far as I can make out it's on the SHP3 amplifier chassis, the two phono sockets J5101 & J5102... The book of words (the manual) is available on the Elektrotanya site.

EDIT: That manual only gives the cabling diagram between the different sections of the jukebox, it doesn't show a schematic of the amplifier etc, that might be available from somewhere else if required....Update...
Open and scroll down to SHP1-3, skip the first one and open the next three for some schematics if you need them:

http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Jukeb...rg/Schematics/

Lawrence.

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Old 18th Aug 2017, 9:44 pm   #9
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

I've once before encountered this kind of symptom and it was due to a rubbing tweeter voice coil. Worth substituting another small speaker instead of one of the tweeters to see whether the problem goes away on that channel.

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Old 18th Aug 2017, 9:49 pm   #10
ruudiboyz
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Thanks for the input i have downloaded schematics for my model which is SHP 1 and first thing i will try is replacing a speaker/cone if i can find a suitable replacement. then go from there.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 12:38 pm   #11
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Are you calling a loudspeaker a "cone" or saying you want to replace the cone in the speaker?
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 5:18 pm   #12
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

I still think you would be better off putting a known good sound source into the pickup inputs. That will test both the amp and the speakers in one go. The sound source could be the output from a mobile phone.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 6:16 pm   #13
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Let's try a little logic.

If distortion happens, higher frequency sounds are made out of lower frequency sounds and the lower frequency sounds are still there.

In a system with multiple speakers, a network called a crossover routes low frequency sounds to the larger speakers, and high frequency sounds to the smaller speakers.

So. If one of your smaller speakers is damaged, then bad sounds will issue from it, and the sound from your large speakers will be fine.

Alternatively, if anything before the crossover is distorting, bad-sounding higher frequency sounds are made at the place where the problem exists. These pass through the system and the crossover sends only the low frequency stuff to the big speakers (which sound fine) and sends the high frequency stuff to the small speakers. The small speakers get the genuine high frequency part of the music, plus the distortion sounds. What comes out of the small speakers therefore sounds bad.

So, either way, the bad sounds come from only the small speakers, and the big speakers sound OK.

The only way for the big speakers to sound bad is if one of them is damaged.

So, from the symptoms as you describe them, the only thing we can say is that the big speakers seem OK. Your fault could be anywhere else in the system, and it would still be most strongly heard in those small speakers across the top.

Before going to the trouble of finding exact replacement parts for anything, I'd recommend trying temporary substitutions to find which area the problem lies in, or doing tests with signals borrowed from another audio source.

It's a long time ago, but a family friend had a jukebox business in the sixties and I grew up helping fix the things and Gordon had almost all Seeburgs. If I remember right, the cartridges are magnetic, so if a signal is inserted here, it will be rather sensitive and will have RIAA equalisation applied.

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Old 19th Aug 2017, 6:22 pm   #14
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

Fuzzy and distorted high frequency sound does sound like a stylus/cartridge problem. It's unlikely to be the speakers or the electronics.
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 7:29 am   #15
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

The Sunstar uses a magnetic cartridge.
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 7:44 am   #16
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Default Re: Seeburg sunstar top cones fuzzy distorted.

The loudspeakers can be eliminated from the equation, of course, simply by temporarily substituting almost any other loudspeaker system ( e.g. a hi-fi speaker, a P.A. speaker, even a full-range car speaker - whatever you have to hand). There's no need to find a matching tweeter - just substitute the whole lot as a test.
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