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Old 30th Sep 2020, 12:41 pm   #1
PandTman
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Default Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

I have an Irish 1954 GPO 332 phone which I am trying to connect here in Ireland. I have replacement cords which I got from Geoff Mawdsley via BritishTelephones.com and I have wired per their instructions here . However when I connect I have a ring tone but once I dial I get what sounds like an engaged tone. The phone does not ring for incoming calls either. I am no expert on this so if anyone could help I would appreciate as there is very little information online about connecting to the Irish network. Attached the wiring diagram.
Many thanks in advance!
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 2:31 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Probably not the cause of your problem, but I'm a little concerned how close the strap between T8 and T9 is to the strap above between T1 and T2, and the closeness of the T12 end of the resistor to T13. If these make contact they won't help matters.

I would be inclined to reseat the strap so that the left end is firmly within T9 and pull the right end of the resistor away from T13.

I'm puzzled by the apparent engaged tone - presumably an on/off tone of around 400Hz if the same as UK. The lack of ringing could be caused by ringing current not appearing on the green wire of the line cord. How is the line cord connected at the far end?
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 2:45 pm   #3
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Hello PandTMan and welcome to the forum! How do telephones connect to the incoming pair of line conductors on the Irish telephone network? By your resistor I'm assuming they use a plug-and-socket connection like in the UK? Would this be it?

http://homepage.eircom.net/~leslie/testpage/wiring.htm
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Last edited by russell_w_b; 30th Sep 2020 at 2:53 pm. Reason: Further info found since orig. post.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 4:58 pm   #4
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Ireland use a different socket than UK, and on newer installations the master socket is just skipped and only the 2 center wires are used.
The first socket in the house should be the master socket and that should have a capacitor if you not have one of the few latest installations. If your phone rings, and you may answer calls to you, you have wired it right. (we'll look at that since yours do not ring.)

I'm not sure about Ireland, but many other countries has telephone lines that not will accept rotary dial anymore. That may cause your call out problem. That may be solved by getting something converting pulses to tones. Since that is rather expensive it may be a good idea to test another known working rotary phone.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 6:36 pm   #5
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

If we look at the Irish system, an guess on that you do not have a 3 wire system with master socket, you have to reverse the process and the only hing you need is to replace the strap with the resistor between 11 and 12. The resistor will only be needed as a replacement for the strap if you have more ringers or telephones than this one. So for testing the original setup will work.

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Old 6th Oct 2020, 11:48 am   #6
PandTman
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Hi folks thanks for all of your replies. I tidied up the connections as suggested and now have incoming calls working perfectly which is fantastic. However when I pick up the receiver to make a call I have a dial tone but once I dial one digit I get an engaged tone. I tried connecting where the line comes into house bit no difference. Any ideas on this. Thanks again
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 1:04 pm   #7
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by PandTman View Post
Hi folks thanks for all of your replies. I tidied up the connections as suggested and now have incoming calls working perfectly which is fantastic. However when I pick up the receiver to make a call I have a dial tone but once I dial one digit I get an engaged tone. I tried connecting where the line comes into house bit no difference. Any ideas on this. Thanks again
It could be that you are seeing in the Republic what we are starting to see in the UK, that unbundled telephone services (like TalkTalk and Sky here) do not support pulse dialling ie from a rotary dial.

Which company bills you for your calls?
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 3:19 pm   #8
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

If loop disconnect (LD) dialling is not supported, I expect to be returned to dial tone after dialling a digit rather than engaged - but it may be that the train of disconnection pulses upsets the exchange equipment.

If lack of LD support is the problem, the only way to get the dial to operate is with something like a Dialgizmo or wiring a Rotatone into the telephone. The advantage of the former is that it simply sits between the 'phone and the line, with no rewiring involved.

I have no connection with the sellers of these items, other than as a satisfied owner.
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 4:32 pm   #9
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Thanks again , I am with Sky so the that might explain things ie they perhaps do not support pulse dialling from a rotary dial. I will try to find out if that is the case and take it from there
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 6:39 pm   #10
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

If it does support loop dis, modern electronic switches can be fussy about the mark/space ratio.
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 9:17 pm   #11
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

as i recall the cord on that phone was red green and white. for the bell to work the green and white were joined and the red on its own across the line. is the dial a standard dial these 332s were used with AB coinboxes. there may be a cam on the dial to inhibit dialling. regards EI7KA
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 7:56 am   #12
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Surely, if you join red and green together, that would short out the capacitor with the green connected where it is.

Where should green be connected in that scenario?
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 8:22 am   #13
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by space charge View Post
as i recall the cord on that phone was red green and white. for the bell to work the green and white were joined and the red on its own across the line. is the dial a standard dial these 332s were used with AB coinboxes. there may be a cam on the dial to inhibit dialling. regards EI7KA
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Surely, if you join red and green together, that would short out the capacitor with the green connected where it is.

Where should green be connected in that scenario?
See attached from the GPO's N432 circuit diagram for the Tele 332
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 9:17 am   #14
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by PandTman View Post
Hi folks thanks for all of your replies. I tidied up the connections as suggested and now have incoming calls working perfectly which is fantastic. However when I pick up the receiver to make a call I have a dial tone but once I dial one digit I get an engaged tone. I tried connecting where the line comes into house bit no difference. Any ideas on this. Thanks again

Great to hear so far. The problem you describe is typical for a didgital telephone conection lik SKY as you metioned too.

The telephone connection on that unit does only use 2 wires, not 3 as systems with master socket use to.

The rotary telephone pulses is not supported by many adapters, so will need to solve that as others has mentioned too.

It is a lot of ways to do that, even when 1 of my 5 dialgizmos has failed, (and I lost the money) We have used dial gizmo on 2 systems pretty stable for years. The 2 others is just for playing for me sice I am crazy enough to have fun of making different systems and testing them so I have one configured for Oslo (and New-ZeaLand who has different dial) and one for a demo so I may call from one phone to another.
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 1:53 pm   #15
PandTman
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Hi Space Charge , the phone is a standard domestic one and not from a phone box. I am wary of buying a Dial gizmo for $40 that may not solve the issue so am open to any other thoughts on this. Attached wiring as it is now
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 2:20 pm   #16
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

If you have an analogue meter, disconnect the phone from the line and connect it across the phone's line cord. Set the meter to the lowest Ohms range.

With the phone on-hook you should see infinite resistance. With the phone off-hook the resistance should drop to a low value. Dial '0' and you should see the meter oscillate between the two readings. If this test works it shows that the dial is OK and the problem is with the exchange.
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 3:19 pm   #17
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

Quote:
Originally Posted by PandTman View Post
...wiring as it is now
What is the reason you've moved one end of the resistor from T11 to T13? I don't see how the bell can work wired like this.
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 6:19 pm   #18
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

excellent advice from station x. you say you can get i/c calls presumably ring in phone rings and trips ringing when you lift the handset all good .i presume you are in the 021 area print the next 3 digits of your number i may remember what type of exchange it is.EI7KA
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 7:55 pm   #19
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

The diagram here:
https://vintage-phones.com/vintageph...hematic%20.jpg

Has this diagram.

For this system it is back to 2 wires so the capacitor has a job to do so we have to keep the strap 10-11 for the ringer, and the anti sidetone circuit. The resistor between 11 and 12 reduce the ringer load to a lower level more like a modern phone.

dsk
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 8:05 pm   #20
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Default Re: Irish P&T 332 - need help to connect in Ireland

When it comes to the dial it is of course possible to measure and analyze the signal, but if you have another phone. e.g. one with buttons and the possibility to switch between pulse and tones, you could try if that will work in pulse position. I f yes, then we may take look at your dial. Lots about dil testing here http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/f...4159#msg214159

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