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Old 5th Jul 2018, 11:50 am   #1
sentinel040
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Default Hudson help

Normally I am a Pye fan, but a bit back whilst looking out for a dash mount Pye Ranger I ended up with what appears to be a Hudson AM108.

This is going to be a bit of long-ish term project, due to family commitments, but I am making a start. Despite a number of the 'orrible brown cracked capacitors the inverter runs up (after re-soldering one end of the piece of fusewire the protects the inverter and audio o/p transistors) and the RX produces background noise. I did not run it for long for obvious reasons, just enough to get a feel for its general state.

After a bit of trawling I managed to source a manual (of sorts) from Mauritron, it is not the best scan in the world, in fact its a bit like Network Rail's signalling record scans, and this has given me a bit of a start. The manual I have shows the radio as being chassis polarity switchable, this one though is hard wired positive earth. This is not the end of the world but I would like to make it switchable or -ve earth, if I can. The circuit diagram shows a earth bus-bar for the + rail which feeds the inverter and audio ccts. So it is a long shot, but does anyone have a picture of how this is arranged?

The next matter is the front panel connector, used either for the remote control unit, or for the local microphone / handset. A picture of this is attached, hopefully. After all these years I should know, and probably did know, what this family of connectors is called, can anyone help me with their name and a source for a plug, preferably cheap!

Cheers

Ian (G8KSZ)
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 1:55 pm   #2
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Default Re: Hudson help

Ian

I don't recall the name but they are quite easily found.

Used on older amateur equipment (Yaesu and Drake for sure)

You see the plug you need often on eBay

73 Fred
G4BWP
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 2:31 pm   #3
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Default Re: Hudson help

They seem to be called Cinch- Jones connectors

Google for "Drake 12 pin connector"

Some auction site hits and photos will come up

73 Fred
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 9:05 pm   #4
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Default Re: Hudson help

Aaah; Jones plugs rings a distant bell!

Always fearful of those auction sites, Shark infested waters.....

Cheers.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 10:08 pm   #5
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Default Re: Hudson help

I may have a connector, will have a rummage tomorrow and revert.

73

Roger
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 10:16 pm   #6
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Default Re: Hudson help

Yes that's a Jones-socket. They were ubiquitous on all sorts of gear from the 1940s through to the 70s [the famous R1155 receiver used them, as did the likes of the Pye boot-mount Vanguards and Cambridges from the early-1960s]

Be aware that there are several different versions, with different pin-sizes/spacings, which have been used over the years. I got caught out recently wgen buying a battery-connector for my MK128 radio: the pin-orientation of the socket I bought was right but it was a more-modern and slightly-smaller design which wouldn't play with the 1950s MK128 connector.

"Painton" versions don't mate with genuine Jones versions!

The real thing is still available from Mouser: https://www.mouser.co.uk/_/?Keyword=...nes+Connectors
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 11:30 pm   #7
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Default Re: Hudson help

I think that type of connector was the standard on Police/Fire telephone type handsets on Whitehalls back in the day. There must have been millions made over the years so it may be a case of rummaging through boxes at rallies. The Pye ones may have been eight pin but it's a long time ago. I'm sure we had a Hudson base set in the workshop years ago working on our "private" channel. I think it was a valve job. Never seen any Hudson mobiles though. Pye, Dymar, Burndept, Marconi and Cossor instead.
Alan.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 6:44 am   #8
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Default Re: Hudson help

Quote:
Originally Posted by G3VKM_Roger View Post
I may have a connector, will have a rummage tomorrow and revert.
Yes, you're in luck as I have several of that pattern c/w shroud and cable clamp. They are used and will require the old wires removing.

Send me a private message thru this forum and give me your postal address.

73

Roger
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 6:48 am   #9
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Default Re: Hudson help

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Be aware that there are several different versions, with different pin-sizes/spacings, which have been used over the years. I got caught out recently wgen buying a battery-connector for my MK128 radio: the pin-orientation of the socket I bought was right but it was a more-modern and slightly-smaller design which wouldn't play with the 1950s MK128 connector.
Did you find a power plug for the Mk128? I have a set here with an inverter to which I fitted my own connector. I can check my Jones plug & socket box for another if needed and test the mating on my 128.

73

Roger
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 10:42 am   #10
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Default Re: Hudson help

I’m pretty sure the No4 Regional Crime Squad’s FM car-car channel base station was a Hudson 108. It was fitted on a council office block (Bush House) in Broad St, Birmingham. and wired back to their office at Bournville. All three now long gone...
When I saw the connector I thought ‘Painton’, an early one with a black crackle-painted cover. Painton connectors were used on many PMR sets of the era. A bit smaller than the WW2 Jones types I think.
Cheers
Martin
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 9:19 pm   #11
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Default Re: Hudson help

All;

Thank you vey much for your collective help and comments, they are all appreciated. I wish I had as much to offer people in returm sometimes.

As I said, my own favourites are Pye, the likes of the Cambridge and Vanguard for the "classic" kit and the MX series for the later radios. As a result I am well versed in the same family of connectors used on the umbilical cables for those. Only I have not had to source the actual connectors for nigh on 40 years and that cable (for a U10B Cambridge) is looking at me now. I can kick myslef for not being able to remember their name. I could claim old age but surely I am not that old, well maybe I am starting to be!

I did not know Birmingham police used them, I believe the Met did, and whilst I have heard of them this is the first I have seen. So I have had to do a bit of digging for info, and there is not that much I have found yet.

They are quite well made and it will be intertesting to see how well it performs. The one I have is low band-ish, but I am still not quite sure if it will go down to 4m, but I have an FT243 rock for somewhere about 78megs, so I will eventually give the receiver a try with that and take it from there. I have a collection of old stuff on 70.26 and still use AM on there from time to time.

Roger, thank you for your kind offer, I will be in touch as requested.

Next jobs, sorting out the chassis earthing, replacing a lot of suspect Hunts c*apacitors and unlocking the cores of the tuned circuits, which may be fun.

73

Ian (G8KSZ)
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 9:04 pm   #12
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Default Hudson help - act 2

A couple of years ago, how time flies, I posted Act 1, in a now closed thread. I did look to see how to have threads reopened, to no avail, hence Act 2.

The radio in question, is what appears to be a Hudson AM108, although it is totally devoid of any identification, other than the remains of a sticker with 78.1 and low ba.... scrawled on it. I did manage to aquire a rather poor scan of what must have been a poor copy of an abridged manual. It has helped to understand the circuit layout, but unfortunately the component identities on the circuit diaram are largely unreadable and you cannot compare them against the parts list for the different bands. I did manage to buy an original manual, only for the consignment it was part of go missing in transit and the radios in it turn up on eBay a bit later, but no sign of the manual. The radio is also slightly different to the manual, in that it has a squelch control, which has the widest dead band I have ever come across, and in reality is probably not a lot of use.

The radios inverter really struggled to start up when I first has it, untill every last brown Hunts capacitor was changed. You could change a few and it sounded more lively and change a few more and it got better still. There also were a few resistors way off in value that were also carefully changed. A couple of electrolytics then had to be changed to remove a horrendous inverter whine on receive audio.

OK so far, then free off stuck cores in the coils, by gently warming them. Then try to tune it up on 70.26, having found some crystals. Now, it peaked up - sort of, but is as deaf as a post, circa 30 microvolts. In fact if you feed a signal into the second RF amp it has slightly more gain than via the aerial socket or after the change-over relay. OK, check all the glassware and DC voltages and both seem OK so re-think time. Is it really 72-88 or is it 88-100? Hence the interest in component values in the front end, which I cannot read on the manual copy I have.

Oh, and the transmitter doe not tune up! I am ignoring that for the moment, but I doubt it will go away.

So the big question, is there a readable copy of a manual out there somewhere, or is this never ending saga to run and run?

73

Ian (G8KSZ
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 9:53 pm   #13
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Default Re: Hudson help - act 2

I remember the previous thread, Ian, glad you are still working on it.
You can request that closed threads be reopened by using the little red+black traffic sign button by every post: a passing mod will open it at his discretion
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 7:05 am   #14
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Default Re: Hudson help - act 2

This needs to be got going. 70.26AM forever!

I think you might find a GDO a very useful addition to the shack if you don't already have one. What are the crystals you have and what is the mixing scheme?
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 7:11 am   #15
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Default Re: Hudson help - act 2

Just something out of the back of my head, Ian, G3ROO used to work for Hudson Radio.
I've no idea if he has any info, and I think he wasn't there very long.

David GM4ZNX
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 7:49 am   #16
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Default Re: Hudson help - act 2

That could be good. I know some in the Harrow club used to run them in 197x.

I'm thinking a likely problem here could be crystal is on the opposite side of signal to that intended. IF might not be standard 10.7MHz but in any case last multiplier probably wouldn't tune. The RX signal circuits might be fine.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 9:50 am   #17
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Default Re: Hudson help - act 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesomega View Post
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Threads merged for continuity.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 10:18 am   #18
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Default Re: Hudson help

Thanks Bill! Nice to read back.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 10:05 pm   #19
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Default Re: Hudson help

There is a picture of an AM108 on the G8EPR site but it's not very high resolution.

I had the idea of looking for the second conversion crystal in the RX to hopefully work out the first IF. I can see it - I think it is labelled X5, but there is no way to read the frequency written on it - try as I might with de-noisers/contrast/brightness curves etc.

Please Sentinel040 come back and tell us about it.

The Hudson AM108 is in danger of slipping away into history. Searching American Radio History for UK mags you get classified Ads for them in SWmagazine etc around 1973-74. They have no proper technical info. Usually it's just a job lot for disposal to the highest bidder.
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Old 4th Sep 2020, 9:20 pm   #20
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Default Re: Hudson help

Thank you everyone! Sorry for being a bit tardy in responding, in my defence I have taken a few days off from work - at short notice - to paint my traction engines living van before the next spell of bad weather sets in. Oh, and reprooof the tarpaulins over the engine, must not forget that. So a few very busy days.

The mix crystal is 10 megs, the first iF is 10.7 and the second 700kc/s. The Mauritron manual I have, which is not readable in places as mentioned, does give the crystal calcs and I then had a trawl around for some second hand ones. RX is fs - 10.7/8 and TX is fs / 8. I do have my doubts about the TX one though as it does not seem to want to sing. The orginals were FT243(?), but I have carefully fitted a couple of HC6U holders in lieu of a pair of the the originals.

I have a couple of GDO's, one of which even works properly, the Ambit one never did. The problems is getting close to the front end coils without it turning into a dockyard job, sort of cut your way in and weld your way back out again. It's probably not quite that bad, but....

I might try G3ROO, but I am always a little cautious about barging into peoples lives.

Anyway, its been a long day sanding and undercoating so it off to bed for the moment. I might have time for a play on Sunday. Once again thank you.

73

Ian G8KSZ
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