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Where To Get Sets and Parts For discussions about swapmeets, rallies, NVCF and BVWS, car boot sales, antique and charity shops, dealers, newspaper adverts, the local tip and just about any other source of equipment (other than eBay).

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Old 3rd Jan 2020, 12:54 pm   #21
yesnaby
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

"7. Ramco will charge full VAT on all commissions, premiums and hammer prices. Auctioneers Scheme and Margin Scheme will not be applied."
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Old 3rd Jan 2020, 3:25 pm   #22
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

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Of course don't get me wrong, there are some good deals to be had from auctions.
Yes, and my house has a fair number of them stuffed into various corners!
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Old 3rd Jan 2020, 6:10 pm   #23
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

I'll probably not bother, there's a few things, but with the fact that some of it may not be working, plus the fees I'll pass.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 7:51 am   #24
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

If you bid a fiver and have to pay commission that's still less than a tenner. A tenner for a PSU working or not in my books is a bargain, they aren't hard to fix.

I'm bidding on a couple of bits, if someone wants owt I'm happy to pick it up and pack etc, caveat being I'm going on the train, not sure they allow wheel barrows on the train so would struggle with gurt big boat anchors.

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Old 4th Jan 2020, 4:29 pm   #25
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

Andy, you could be making a dangerous offer! I'll have another look at the catalogue and send a message if there's something that takes my fancy. The train from Truro to Skegness and back would probably be the same as a brand new Farnell PSU!
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 4:42 pm   #26
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

It's worth studying the full terms and conditions for some of these auction houses. I've not bought much but I have had some great bargains. However, I did notice a pattern for all the items that I've won so far. I noticed the same for stuff bought at auction by the company I work for.

This is that every item that was won, it was won by the smallest margin possible. This meant a margin within 10 at many thousands of pounds on some items. This made me study the T&C for a couple of auction houses. It was a surprise to me that the seller and the auction house reserve the right to bid against me as many times as they see fit. That might or might not apply at Ramco but it does at other auction houses.

Presumably it is all legit to do this but it was a surprise to see it buried in amongst the terms and conditions.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 4:49 pm   #27
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

That is surprising, and seems like a real swizz! Just set a reserve! That's a point in favour of eBay as they specifically forbid that the last time I checked. They take a very dim view of having another account pushing up the prices and I think it's an instant ban.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 5:16 pm   #28
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

The most blatant example of this was at a local auction near where I work. The auction T&C allowed the seller to bid against the buyer either in person, or via the auction house or via third parties.

This is allowed because the auction house gets maybe 16% commission on every increase in the sale price. So they benefit from this shady practice.

Finding this info isn't that difficult but you do have to do some digging. Both (major UK) auction companies I have used have this stuff in their T&Cs but you have to find the relevant document that declares it. There may be several documents that cover all of the T&C for example.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 5:33 pm   #29
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

I must say it's surprising that this (known as shill bidding) is legal, as it's effectively fraudulent, akin to insider trading on the stock market.

I would be wary of any auction house permitting it.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 5:49 pm   #30
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

I'm nervous to name the companies I've used in case it violates forum rules about auctions but feel free to google for this:

Quote:
Bidding shall be regulated by Us in such a manner as We may think fit and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing the Seller may bid for any lot either personally or through Us or through any other person as many times as they respectively may think fit.
Quote:
In the case of items upon which there may be a reserve, the [insert auction house name here] shall have the right to bid on behalf of Seller or on its own behalf.
Maybe I'm misreading the T&C for the above companies but I was annoyed when I saw it each time.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 6:45 pm   #31
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

A lot of auction companies also have a popcorn bidding system meaning that if your bid is the highest near the end of the auction and someone bids in the last few minutes the auction end time extends maybe 5 minutes. This can happen many times and the auction time can easily be extended by 30 minutes or longer.

Be prepared for some stress if this system is in use especially if you are bidding on several items that are all ending at a similar time...
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 8:43 pm   #32
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0HZU_JMR View Post
I'm nervous to name the companies I've used in case it violates forum rules about auctions but feel free to google for this:

Quote:
Bidding shall be regulated by Us in such a manner as We may think fit and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing the Seller may bid for any lot either personally or through Us or through any other person as many times as they respectively may think fit.
Quote:
In the case of items upon which there may be a reserve, the [insert auction house name here] shall have the right to bid on behalf of Seller or on its own behalf.
Maybe I'm misreading the T&C for the above companies but I was annoyed when I saw it each time.

If the reserve is clearly stated and bidding doesn't reach it, I don't see the problem. The buyer knows they won't get the item below the reserve and it's surely up to them if they want to increase their bid up to that reserve. If the reserve is not publicised though, I would, personally, consider this sharp practice.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 9:03 pm   #33
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

Agreed. However, I did look at the T&C of other auction companies and they often make it very clear that seller/auctioneer bidding is only allowed up to just under the reserve price and then it must stop. That seems really clear and reasonably fair. The wording in the two examples I gave is very vague and does not imply any limit for the value of the bids made.

Either way, the best advice I can offer to any newcomers to this type of auction is to work out the maximum total cost involved with auction fees and VAT and collection/delivery.

This can make it expensive to bid on lots of small items if the bidder only actually wins one small item and they have to collect it or pay someone to ship it by courier. That 10 PSU could become very expensive after VAT and fees and shipping... It gets worse if it turns out to be faulty or it is missing some parts inside.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 9:42 pm   #34
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

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I'm nervous to name the companies I've used in case it violates forum rules about auctions but feel free to google for this
Yes, The "eBay" rules apply to any other auction or similar organisation. No names please, for the same reasons.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 10:06 pm   #35
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

Thanks.

I think it is worth being aware of the terms and conditions of any auction. My impression is that as long as something is declared somewhere in the small print then it is allowed and that applies to lots of things associated with the auction. But then again, I'm no expert on this matter so I may be wrong.

I would advise precaution with popcorn bidding as it will be easy to get dragged into a bidding war.

Every time I've bid on something at one of these online auction companies I've made one late bid and this was set at the most I would pay. So no second bids and no popcorn bids from me.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 10:35 pm   #36
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

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Yes, The "eBay" rules apply to any other auction or similar organisation. No names please, for the same reasons.
By my understanding of 'the eBay rules' this is not what they're for. In this case, publicising parts of the companies' own terms and conditions (which many of us don't have the energy to wade through) is a public service - not the poking fun, legal threats or lambasting of private eBay sellers that 'the rules' are designed to prevent.

I think this is very useful and has certainly made me aware of practices I don't condone. I would certainly want to share the wisdom of another's experiences by knowing which auction houses do this so I can make an informed decision.

This is no different from calculating the percentage added (which I also feel is quite a lot extra if the bidding increases) as this is also publicly available information.

I will be investigating the Ramco T&Cs so I don't get excited about placing a tenner on a seemingly unwanted PSU I will fail to win!
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 11:19 pm   #37
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

I hope my advice is useful. The other part of the T&C that is worth studying is in how you have to pay and how quickly.

One company wanted payment within 24 hours by direct bank transfer or I would be in default. It also wanted collection within a very narrow timeslot or I would be in default. So I ended up doing a mad dash there by car.

The whole experience was quite stressful but it did have a happy ending because I did get the item at a very good price. I still have it here today and I'm very pleased with it

The other aspect of this is that I found that the collection process was very casual with the two companies I dealt with. It didn't seem to be very well organised and I was relieved that nothing had been lost or given to someone else. It was a bit like collecting parcels from the post office only you get to help the person find the items in amongst all the lots.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 12:00 am   #38
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

It's actually very simple in that if the 'vendor' of the items being sold is a company or business that is VAT registered, then the auction house has to by law collect this VAT on the actual items on behalf of the said vendor. The vendor may be a liquidator or a clearance company or the company themselves.

At one of the large auctions that I sometimes attend, the auctioneer will announce at the beginning of the sale what the terms and conditions are in that unless stated otherwise, that there will be a percentage commission on the hammer price with VAT on that commission ONLY. Sometimes, as the sale progresses, the auctioneer will pause and announce that the following however many items will also have VAT on the actual hammer price as well as on the commission, this being due to the vendor of the said items being VAT registered. After these items have been sold, the auctioneer will announce that the VAT items are finished and that it's back to the normal no VAT on hammer price with just VAT on the commission only - and so on.

One downside to this sale room is that there's now a surcharge on items that sell for a very low price in that there's a minimum commission charge with VAT, supposedly to cover paperwork, so all those 1 and 2 lots that you might bid for just for the nuts and bolts, start to become expensive, so every 2 lot ends up at nearly a fiver, so you have to really want it to bother with it! What now happens is that the auctioneer will get down to 1 and whereas I might be tempted to just say yes for the scrap usefulness in screws and bolts etc, I now don't bother and the auction house is stuck with it. Sometimes it'll be still there at the next sale in the hope that someone will eventually buy it. I still do buy the very cheap lots, but it has to be because I actually want it. With the surcharge added, buying a few lots at what would appear to be a pound or two each can soon get expensive if you're not careful.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 7:42 am   #39
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

Auctions can be dangerous, you have to have self control, it's easy to get carried away or knobbled by T&C which most of us don't read.

Andy.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 10:06 am   #40
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Default Re: Cheap PSU's and other gear.

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Auctions can be dangerous, you have to have self control, it's easy to get carried away or knobbled by T&C which most of us don't read.

Andy.
On occasions I have been auctioneer at our club junk sales. These don't really have t&c , but occasionally I make one up at the time. My favourite is, when a previous lot or two of mostly junk with no interest is unsold even at 10p, the next lot that does sell has "forgot to mention, but the previous lot is also included" added before i drop the hammer! Most people will do the honourable thing & take it away to save us a trip to the skips.
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