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Old 8th Dec 2018, 11:40 am   #21
G4YVM David
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Default Re: Long Wave during the War

Richard. Ahem, you are spot on. As Capt Mainwaring would say, thank you Richard...I was wondering when someone would spot my deliberate mistake. Carry on Sergeant.

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Old 8th Dec 2018, 3:36 pm   #22
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Default Re: Long Wave during the War

There were (and still are) non-directional navigation beacons on LW.

WWII-receivers like the R1155 and one of the US "Command" receivers (R23/ARC5 - BC453-B) covered LW for beacon reception. The BC453B was popular with hams after WWII as an "additional IF" for improving the selectivity of shortwave receivers whose IF was between 150 and 500KHz. You tuned your 453B to the IF of your main receiver; the 453B then in turn converted this to a lower IF( 85KHz) where it was easier to get good selectivity without needing crystal-filters etc.

See here: https://www.pa3esy.nl/military/us/ai...f/FavRx002.pdf
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 1:03 pm   #23
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Like Steve I was surprised not to have known about this place, given that I've read around War Time Radio activities like a lot of Forum members. Clearly the maximum security/secrecy was maintained for quite a while [like Bletchley]! The "Hidden History in Holderness" BBC page [2006] suggests that it's sale to a local farmer for £5k [in 1959] was a bargain but it was quite a lot of money really!

It says that the site itself was selected as a dedicated facility to replace the temporary use of existing ones in the south. I wonder if that decision related to keeping things quiet or was there some geographical advantage there, re broadcasting to Europe? I recall that there was a TX Station related to Shipping [but much smaller] on the coast near Hull. It was featured in [I think] the BVWS Bulletin [or it could have been Radio Bygones] some time [?] in the nineties when it was closed down and also sold off!

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Old 9th Dec 2018, 1:17 pm   #24
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Hi Dave, Humber radio, was for the Trawlers and shipping. There is also have an aircraft beacon at Ottringham its about 3 miles or so to the west of the OSE5 site. The area known as Holderness is very flat, I think that may be one of the reasons it was chosen for radio activity.


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Old 9th Dec 2018, 2:00 pm   #25
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Thanks John. I lived in Hull for a year in 1969 and have often regretted that I didn't stay there. I wouldn't have known anything about the war time history of course but I was impressed by being able to get both Yorkshire and Anglia TV!

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Old 9th Dec 2018, 2:59 pm   #26
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Default Re: Long Wave during the War

Until July 1974 the Belmont transmitter broadcast Anglia TV.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 5:13 pm   #27
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Default Re: Long Wave during the War

I think to say than longwave propagation isn't affected by skywave is wrong anyone who listened to Atlantic 252 will tell you that at nite the Algerian station which shared the frequency was a big nuisance in fact during winter it can still be heard clearly over the top of what is now RTE1 on that frequency. Also I'm told that listeners to radio 4 on 200 Kc/s could here the high power radio Moscow transmitter faintly underneath it at nite and again even in the day during winter.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 8:00 pm   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
'...or was there some geographical advantage there, re broadcasting to Europe?'
The site had a sea-path right into the target area, so less attenuation on the LW broadcasts, and probably good communications links via the PO circuits for programme feeds. It would also have been (mistakenly, as it happens) considered relatively safe from air-raids.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 8:59 pm   #29
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Default Re: Long Wave during the War

I expect I was wrong about the location being partly decided on air-raids, as the entire site was built in individual bomb-proof buildings with an underground control centre. My assertion regarding PO feeds and sea-path stands.

Before Ottringham (OSE5) went to-air, the LF group broadcasting the European Service consisted of the 5XX LF transmitter at Droitwich (as mentioned in post 6); the original 5XX 30kW LF transmitter at Daventry, and an STC 15kW LF set at Brookman's Park.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 10:43 pm   #30
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I only know of one bomb that landed within a mile of OSE5, though there may have been more. Situated 12miles east of Hull the station must have been very lucky as Hull was High on the list of most bombed City's in the UK. I would have expected OSE5 to have been a prime target.


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Old 10th Dec 2018, 12:02 am   #31
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It makes you wonder what reception in Europe was like with the original low power network on LF. I think Ottringham must of been a big improvement. Although saying that I can sometimes hear the Czech 50 kW on 271 kc/s these days though the noise level is very high, whereas back then it would of been fairly noise free.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 11:01 am   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahs radios View Post
It makes you wonder what reception in Europe was like with the original low power network on LF.
It wasn't brilliant, which is one of the reasons the BBC went on to build Ottringham. Droitwich, Brookmans Park and Daventry LF transmitters were kept on-air as 'spoiler stations' to thwart location identification by enemy aircraft.

Ottringham could broadcast one programme on 800kW (600kW in practice) or four programmes at 200kW each.
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