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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 19th Aug 2017, 2:51 pm   #21
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Default Re: Vintage Vogue Tape Recorder - any information welcome

I checked the underside of mine - it was as I remembered no removable bottom panel.

I have gently removed the two control knobs on the Collaro and also both the plastic covers.

The pinch roller looks to be in good condition.

I will explore the recorder further - but in slow time. However, Edward, when I do I'll let you know how it compares to the spec you gave.

Moderators, should I start a fresh thread when I do as I've rather hijacked crispyw, or does it make sense to continue as we are discussing an uncommon machine here?
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 1:33 pm   #22
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An update:

I removed the two wood screws (nearest the lid hinge) holding the tape drive and then the two machine screws (the shorter one nearest to the carrying handle) holding the tape drive beside the controls. I then discovered that moving the tape drive moved the controls - hmm so the two are connected together...

Gently, but firmly, pulling off the four pastic knobs and removing the four little wood screws allowed me to remove the plastic rectangle that has all the control descriptions on it to reveal an aluminium plate with the magic eye attached.

I next tried lifting the joined unit out of the rexine covered case - but was not able to get it out far at all. The whole lot is heavy and I do not want an accident, so have put the job aside for a little thinking...
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 1:37 pm   #23
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Put some bubble wrap, old carpet or W.H.Y on the bench and place the whole unit on it upside down, being careful that the deck etc. doesn't drop out. Then lift the cabinet, which will be lighter, off the deck.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 12:59 pm   #24
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Thank you Graham - I'll try that sometime soon.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 2:58 pm   #25
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Re post no 19,

Edward, the valve line-up is as you said.

Graham, I did what you advised - it is certainly a heavy beastie!

A quick inspection revealed a few paper capacitors to change - I also spotted a rubber idler wheel which looked alright, but I've not (slowly) powered the unit up yet.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 2:54 pm   #26
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Thanks for the valve line up confirmation. It's most certainly that as for the Sound "Studio". A nice design with good output, but it lacks proper EQ circuits for the 3 speeds, thus it is optimsed for 3.3/4ips. These retailed for 39gns and I don't know how they built it for the money. Within 9 months of launch, the price went up to 42gns.
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 1:17 pm   #27
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My next step is to do a partial circuit diagram trace in order to see if the paper capacitors need changing straight away (the 'that' capacitor problem) - or whether I can reform the electrolytics and power it up to see if the tape deck works and whether the record/replay head is not open circuit before doing the rest of the paper capacitors. The combined deck and electronics are both heavy and awkwardly shaped for an easy in-situ check. It looks like I would have to make a supporting jig...

Thanks for the EQ tip Edward.
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Old 20th Oct 2017, 1:00 pm   #28
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... just as a follow-on question ...

I note Edward's comment on the EQ being optimised for 3 3/4 IPS. Interesting, as I had gained the impression that multi-speed tape recorders of that era tended to optimise 7 1/2 IPS as being the Hi-Fi recording speed. All this in the context of the particular tape formulation available at the time, being used.

I wonder if there was any attempt to standardise the replay characteristic for such domestic machines in the early '60s? And if so what it was (CCIR 400 uSec for 3 3/4 IPS perhaps ??)
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Old 20th Oct 2017, 3:53 pm   #29
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I think for the entry level market this 39gns machine was being aimed at, the 3.3/4ips speed was a good compromise between tape costs and audio performance. Whilst there was better treble and wow and flutter (esp. on piano recordings) this machine did sound really good at the medium speed through its own 4 watt amp and large speaker. When played through a hi-fi amp, one could take full advantage of its tone controls.
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Old 20th Oct 2017, 4:14 pm   #30
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Equalisation wasn't too important on these basic domestic machines given their electronics and speakers and the tape stock likely to be used. Most domestic users used 3.75 for everything given the cost of tape, even if 7.5 was available. They would have used 1.875 if they could have got away with it, and some did, but the quality wasn't really adequate.
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Old 21st Oct 2017, 11:15 am   #31
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Thanks folks.

I suppose the realistic domestic criterion was "What did the recording sound like on the machine that recorded it", rather than "Can I play this tape back, with full justice to the recording, on another make of tape recorder"; this latter being more of a professional issue.
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Old 22nd Oct 2017, 12:10 pm   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
They would have used 1.875 if they could have got away with it, and some did, but the quality wasn't really adequate.
I agree, but I did hear, in person, Brenell provide some quite convincing demonstrations of a Pianoforte recording at 1.7/8ips with very low Wow and Flutter at a long ago HiFi Show.

Then of course there was 15/16ips, but we won't go there!

The point made elsewhere above is also true, most Domestic users were not worried about upwards compatibillity, there were just happy to record and play back on their BSR TD2s - and often just using the supplied crystal (usually Acos) Mike.
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Old 24th Oct 2017, 1:12 pm   #33
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I've been making slow but steady progress on this recorder. I've traced most of the circuit (quite a simple one in relation a Philips one of the same era methinks!), and I've also been giving some thought to the mechanical side. I've read a small item on the tape deck in the 1960/61 edition of Radio and Television Servicng. It mentions oiling the motor bearings which have a felt oil washer. With the tape deck upside down I can see what I think to be these on the bottom bearings (when the deck is the right way up), but I can't see any for the top bearings. Does anybody know whether there are any there?
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Old 31st Oct 2017, 2:21 pm   #34
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.... still progressing slowly.

I mentioned what I had here to a friend who said "I bet it was assembled in a small workshop probably using a Mullard/Philips design - since back then M/P produced many 'example' circuits which featured in their own publications as well as magazines like 'Wireless World'". A good point I thought, to which I did not know the answer -but I know a Forum where the answer might known... So folks, any knowledge please?
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Old 31st Oct 2017, 2:49 pm   #35
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Default Re: Vintage Vogue Tape Recorder - any information welcome

I seem to remember that "Mullard Circuits for Audio Amplifiers" has tape link circuits but it sounds like you're pretty much there with the electronics.

You ask about the mechanical maintenance; you can download service data on the Collaro Studio Tape Deck at the link found in the top-right corner of every page on the Forum.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 10:36 am   #36
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I doubt if the record/playback amplfier in this is as well specified as any Mullard/Philips tape recorder circuit. Whilst it was made to meet a price point, it is well made for what it is. As I suggested earlier, the weakness in this design is in the record/playback equalisation circuitry.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 4:40 pm   #37
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Edward, yes, I understood your earlier point. Rather I was wondering whether the people who built the tape-recorder had simply used a pre-existing design.

A further update: the Screen Grid (SG) resistor for the EF86 (1st stage) was marked (orange black green) as 3.0 Meg, 10% - an unusual value for a 10 % "usually E12 series" resistor. It has risen to 4 M, but I've not changed it as most resistor values are not too critical (unless it is a gain defining feedback circuit) and I don't like changing for the sake of it. However there was an ERO brand 0.25uF, 150 V wkg decoupler also connected to the SG pin. This one drew 2 ma when connected to a 150 V supply, so a little leaky methinks.
On removing it I found the underside of the slate grey encapsulation was cracked (RIFA style). Also since the tape-recorder uses a selenium rectifier I suspect the capacitor would have been over-voltaged on switch-on until the valves warmed up. As you say Edward, made to a price point...
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 5:44 pm   #38
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Default Re: Vintage Vogue Tape Recorder - any information welcome

Hi
If you look back at contemporary adverts for reel-to-reel kits where you could specify the deck, there was remarkably little price difference between the TRD2/10 and the Collaro which, I'm sure you'd admit, was a far superior deck.
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 4:05 pm   #39
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No further physical progress - its been too cold when the machine is. However a friend may have a copy of the "Philips" publication that Graham (Llama) mentioned in post no 35, so I'm awaiting events...
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 8:30 pm   #40
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I think you will find the Philips/Mullard circuit will have no connection to the circuit design of your unit.
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