Predicted life of audio recorded on magnetic tape

[Edward Huggins]

The Head Sound Archivist from the British Musuem was on Radio 4 earlier today talking of the rush to digitize. He indicated that by 2035 much recorded audio on magnetic tape would start to become unsalvageable.
For my part, the 3.3/4 ips half-track recordings I made on a Collaro "Studio"deck in 1959 stll sound surprisingly good, but I would guess that the 61 year old substrate must be weakening.
I would not dare to challenge the Archivist's predictions, but wonder what other Members think about this upcoming, and seemingly unavoidable, situation?

[Refugee]

It is variable between tape manufacturers.
It is not the recording that fades but the tape that physically parts from the recording material so that it eventually becomes like a strip of clear plastic.
The cheaper brands tend to last better for some reason.

[paulsherwin]

I suspect the archivist was simplifying for a nonspecialist audience. The intricacies of tape binder deterioration would be lost on most people.

[Hartley118]

I wonder whether the Archivist was extrapolating from the well-publicised 'sticky shed' problem associated AFAIK mainly with professional grade tapes such as Ampex 456.

I'm constantly amazed by the apparently unchanged quality of my own tapes from 1960s vintage. They're a mix of Emitape, BASF and unbranded 'white box' tapes (branded tape was pretty costly for a student!). I think they're mainly of the LP type on a polyester backing.

Digital files, of course, have their own problems in that they can't be regarded as a static archive - they need a regular backup discipline or the potential loss could be total in the event of a drive failure or other media damage.

Martin

Martin

[hillmanie]

One can only speak from own experience of course My music tapes date from 1963, coincidentally also on a Collaro Studio in a Civic machine. Had a favourite BBC Sun radio program recorded via a screened lead clipped to the AF input stage (volume control tab) of a radio bought at a jumble sale fro 2/6d needing a couple of shillings repair
TT

[paulsherwin]

There was a specific problem with a Du Pont binder use by Ampex and Scotch in the 70s. This had a particularly devastating outcome as Ampex dominated pro studio recording at that time, so lots of important historic recordings were affected. Tapes from European and Japanese manufacturers didn't use this binder.

[Tractorfan]

Hi,
I found that it very much depends on the tape itself. I'm no recording expert by any means, but have found that EMItape seems to survive better than other brands. I have a couple of Beatles tapes from 1964 that still sound good. as well as stuff recorded from the radio in the early 70s, also on EMItape.
BASF is pretty good too. But some other tapes are unplayable due to sticky shed.
I read an article a bit back about archiving recordings at the BBC, the gist of which was that shellac and vinyl discs would last virtually for ever; Magnetic tape not quite as long, but CDs & DVDs would need to be re-copied every ten years or so.
For some reason, cassette tape seems to fare better than reel tape. I've been sorting through boxes of cassettes recently, and found that they were all still reasonable. All the way from BASF, Maxell, Memorex, Sony, down to branded ones like Boots, Pinnacle, King Sonic (super cheapo), etc. All still played without shedding any oxide.
Cheers, Pete.

[dave walsh]

This sort of predicted "end date" has been steadily moving backwards over the last five or six decades. We don't really know about the accuracy of the latest comment [remember the Millemium Bug prediction] but magnetic tape is one of the few recording mediums that has had such a long soak test so far. Arguably a demand to digitise may be based as much on ease of access. It's all a little on a par with the sixties prediction that audio cassettes would never be a Hi-Fi sound source.

I'm not happy/skilled with Hard Drives so I mainly use DVD's now [for audio recordings as well as Video]. When you read up on the absolutely minute tolerances in manufacture [see Perfecting Sound Forever... Greg Milner] it's surprising that these work or survive at all. A lot of people have problems with Discs I know but not me [so far] out of how many discs in use world wide?
It's all a bit similar to being told your audio tapes will fail-then they don't.

Of course I'm only talking about Edward's longevity concern here.

I'm not really that exercised by the other issues around Analogue/Digital reproduction etc. Another significant and subjective can of worms.
My overall baseline is a very basic but effective 4 Track R to Reel machine in the sixties. Discovering that the final generation of VCR's reached 20k on the audio side then the onset of CD/DVD is still a bit amazing to me.

Dave W

[Station X]

I've found CD's and DVD's to be the most unreliable recording format. No problems with hard disks so far.

At least with audio or video magnetic tape something of the recording remains, but if a DVD won't load....

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

The Head Sound Archivist from the British Musuem was on Radio 4 earlier today talking of the rush to digitize. He indicated that by 2035 much recorded audio on magnetic tape would start to become unsalvageable.

In general, that's not an unreasonable estimate. No machines have been made for a decade, and neither have consumables such as heads, on any scale at least. The cost in time and money of keeping machines (and noise reduction units, come to that) running is significant, before you get into the question of tape deterioration. Low coercivity tapes can print to the point of being unusable, and Emitape and BASF are exceptions to a general picture of problematic base materials. Acetate becomes brittle, "cups" or succumbs to vinegar syndrome, mylar warps, PVC stretches as soon as you look at it. Binders fail by allowing the coating to drop off or by going sticky, and so on and so on. Add the fact that the number of people with experience of tape will inevitably dwindle, and I think the resoning is clear. That's not to say I and many others won't be fighting a rearguard action...

[GeoffB17]

I think I heard the same broadcast??

It seemed to me that the archivist did refer to problems with the media, but was saying that the far bigger problem was finding/maintaining etc the machine/equipment to play the media on, regardless of which media it was. If they could find something, then something could be recovered. And saved/rescued.

Geoff

[emeritus]

I heard that programne too. It's not as if it is a new problem, I recall reading about it around a decade ago.

I have had no problems with oxide shedding or print through with recordings made on C120 cassettes. My earliest are from 1969, made on Philips and Maxell cassttes. The only example of oxide shedding with cassettes I have had is a commercial cassette of "The Shadows Greatest Hits" that starts sounding boomy after only a few minutes due to oxide build-up. The only significant oxide shedding from 1/4" tape I have had was from an unbranded bargain pack of 3" spools of leaderless standard play tape bought from Gamages circa 1965. They shedded straight away, possibly why they were dirt cheap. Following that experience I only ever bought quality branded tapes subsequently.

[John10b]

Further to the comments already expressed. Cost considerations in the management, storage, and the upkeep of playback equipment played a great deal in the drive to digitise. The storage facility had to be kept within the right Humidity and Temperature range, with guidance from the various tape manufacturers, this brought with it its own set of problems, for example if we had a power cut etc. All in all not a simple situation, particularly when financial pressure is on you.
John

[Richard_FM]

I've digitised almost all my tapes to computer, only one pre-recorded tape showed any signs of deterioration, but it was a cheap one & I have most of the contents elsewhere.

Certainly my home recorded ones sounded fine after 20 years, even when recorded on WH Smiths branded tapes.

[GMB]

From my direct experience of a big magnetic (digital) tape archive I would say that print-through is a big problem for static archives. It is clear from the above comments that tapes that get played a lot seem to keep going. It is when they are not played that many troubles start. We used to unwind and rewind tapes on a regular cycle to avoid print-though issues.

Comments on CDs and DVDs need to be careful to be clear about the actual type as it is hugely variable. There are CD technologies that are warrantied for 1000 years - and I think that original CDs that are "made" rather than recorded are pretty good. But DIY recordings have a short life unless you use one of the very special types that are available for archiving.

Hard drives have the problem that they are "all or nothing" devices in the main. If you get a head crash then the cost of rescuing any data is massive. But you would do well to check the perforance data that is available from some types of drive as they work very hard to cover up errors, until the day that they cannot keep that up and you suddenly find out how far gone they are. And do not forget that modern hard drives have a life of their own, so that means they are relying on their flash memory for their software to keep working. Loose that and they are dead in an instant - and that is also the long-term fate of almost every modern piece of technology.

I have a piece of electronics that is 102 years old that still works. I cannot think of anything new that I own that will match that!

[paulsherwin]

I have never had a 'pressed' CD fail in the absence of physical damage.

CD-Rs used to be very variable, with some failing within a few months for no obvious reason. Brands were no guide, as brand owners seemed to be subcontracting to factories all over the world. The quality seems to have improved over the last few years, and I haven't had one fail for quite a while now.

[woodchips]

Bit worrying about the failure of Scotch tapes.

When at university in Birmingham in the 70's there was a shop in Digbeth that sold secondhand stuff, and I bought lots of their Scotch 8.1/4" 1/4" tape reels, came from the BBC with labels like World Wide Family Favourites. Bang go all my top 20/40 recording?

[paulsherwin]

Not all Scotch tapes are affected. It depends on the formulation and the date. Sticky shed is quite easy to spot - you just need to unwind a few feet from the spool and see if it sticks as it's unwinding.

[hillmanie]

Originally Posted by woodchips

Bit worrying about the failure of Scotch tapes.

Hmmmm... 'me too' Have a few Scotch's and as regards careful storage mine couldn't have 'cycled' through more changes of heat/cold/damp. It's a miracle some play after 57 yrs. As for CD/DVD I've had my share of disappointments
no starts, running halts et al. Have suspected the drive in question but then other discs would play. I had in mind the experience that old 3 and a quarter often wouldn't load on a drive different to the one were recorded on
TT

[GeoffB17]

As for the Scotch tape, I have quite a few Scotch 206 (the 'professional' SP type) and some 207 (more the LP variety) and I'd have got this in the mid/late 1970s. I'm still using this now, and it's totally fine. Recordings still good, just a slight hint of bits coming off during run through, but nothing to worry about. Certainly no SSS.

Geoff