UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 6:24 pm   #301
The Philpott
Nonode
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 2,101
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Ah, Stanhopes. Thankyou. Someone somewhere probably now owns those 6 tourist shots of Dawlish- but possibly has no idea they even exist.

I see that Wiki quotes the Dictionary of Photography (1858) as describing microphotography as 'somewhat trifling and childish'. What a blinkered view for relatively enlightened times- perhaps there was some jealousy involved..and perhaps the conceit of wordsmiths and dictionary makers in BBC Blackadder III was the result of good research..

I suspect a clone or two of Repair Shop will soon appear, probably inferior. Format change to a group of specialists on tour complete with kit, in a couple of converted double-decker buses Cliff Richard style.

Dave
The Philpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 2:32 pm   #302
Croozer
Pentode
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 103
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Taking a few steps back, both in time and perspective, is this programme not doing exactly what television was meant to:creating an illusion in which its audience is sufficiently emotionally and/or intellectually invested to keep watching?

There may be no real 'Repair Shop' but its staged creation with experts who are just that - rather than actors- and genuine punters with real 'stories' associated with real items is done well enough to command an audience who would otherwise neither know nor care that there was a difference between a radio valve and a water valve.

I agree that for technical discourse it falls short, but it is television and all the illusion and 'magic' associated with it, created primarily for entertainment rather than education.

Last edited by Croozer; 3rd Aug 2019 at 2:43 pm. Reason: Typo
Croozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th Aug 2019, 6:25 pm   #303
duncanlowe
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Stafford, Staffs. UK.
Posts: 611
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
If nothing else, it must bring them in lots of new business. For example, I read on their company website last year that Julie and Amanda's business was closed to new 'patients' for several months, due to demand - and no doubt, due to the filming schedule.
Julie and Amanda also gain an awful lot of business through workshops they hold in various places. The queue when they visit the Merrythought shop (Ironbridge) twice a year, is literally out the door. I shall be seeing them again in September. It seems the waiting list via the web is growing rather than shrinking.
duncanlowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Mar 2020, 5:04 pm   #304
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 4,659
Default Repair Shop Juke

Tonight's one hour, prime position, edition of Repair Shop features a Juke Box being "spruced up" according to the Radio Times-8pm BBC1.

Not wireless related perhaps [but maybe] "Harry Birrell Presents" is an historic vintage 16mm film archive "Tour De Force". I was a bit peeved to see it reviewed last week as it was being shown on BBC Scotland [the program's origin]. Sensibly, it goes out on BBC4 at 9pm tonight.

Dave W
dave walsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Mar 2020, 11:25 pm   #305
nigelr2000
Heptode
 
nigelr2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 688
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

I had a hand in repairing that jukebox when it was bought back to the workshop in Cromer after it failed to co-operate for Mark, it was a right pain and came down to someone in the past re-soldering 2 wires transposed on the Jones plug/socket to the front selector buttons, took lots of head scratching & wire tracing to find it, they didn't mention that bit in the program
nigelr2000 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Mar 2020, 10:23 am   #306
Mike-repairman
Heptode
 
Mike-repairman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 599
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

I was watching that with interest; they look like a minefield to repair. Hopefully his solder job on the broken selector pin will hold. A little blob of hot melt glue may have helped.

When he got it going for the first time and played Wonderful Life by the Shadows I thought they had overdubbed the music as the record was white and red (not black or green like the normal release) but apparently there was a release by EMI later with Wonderful Life, Apache and FBI on it, a maxi single. Yes I have far too much time on my hands LOL.

Mike.
Mike-repairman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Mar 2020, 11:20 am   #307
llama
Octode
 
llama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,196
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Was that lead-free solder? (Looking at the way it cooled-to-a-frost).
Graham
__________________
Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!
llama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Mar 2020, 11:39 am   #308
M0FYA Andy
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 2,000
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by llama View Post
Was that lead-free solder? (Looking at the way it cooled-to-a-frost).
Graham
I sincerely hope not, given that I'm 100% certain it wouldn't have been used originally on that unit.
M0FYA Andy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Mar 2020, 6:13 pm   #309
knobtwiddler
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 74
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

I didn't know about this programme until yesterday when I saw this thread (thank you). I just watched the episode from 13 Dec 2019, where they restored a 1962 Reel machine. I thought the restoration, while cursory in nature, did well to show how caps and Rs drift with age.

However, someone please tell me that they didn't just plonk the owner's precious tape straight in the machine without consulting an expert first!. If a tape is something you made down the pub and not of much value, play it by all means. But a recording as precious as your late father should not be touched - without seeing a specialist, and preferably transcribing it to hard disk via a machine with a deluxe mechanism first (not a consumer machine from 1962).

There must be thousands of people out there with 60-year old tapes of relatives and the like. Sending out a message that you can simply play these tapes (they could need baking) is deeply irresponsible IMO. The tape might be fine, sure. At the same time, it might play once, shed its oxide and that's that. There ought to have been warnings for viewers with old tapes.
knobtwiddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 9:18 am   #310
llama
Octode
 
llama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,196
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

The "Quest" channel, FreeView 12, are showing earlier programmes - series 2 I think - so plenty to catch up on. Tuesday evenings.
Graham
__________________
Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!
llama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 10:26 am   #311
ColinTheAmpMan1
Octode
 
ColinTheAmpMan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wimbledon, London, UK.
Posts: 1,155
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-repairman View Post
When he got it going for the first time and played Wonderful Life by the Shadows I thought they had overdubbed the music as the record was white and red (not black or green like the normal release) but apparently there was a release by EMI later with Wonderful Life, Apache and FBI on it, a maxi single. Yes I have far too much time on my hands LOL.

Mike.
I think you have the title of that track wrong - it should be "Wonderful Land". There was a Cliff Richard film called "Wonderful Life" and two verions of a song with that name from Black and from Katy Melua. Also, a 1946 James Steward film called "It's a Wonderful Life".

Confession time: I was a big Shadows fan in the sixties. I eventually achieved an ambition to own a Fender Stratocaster and a Vox AC30 amplifier.

Colin (See if you can guess why my username is what it is).
ColinTheAmpMan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 10:47 am   #312
Mike-repairman
Heptode
 
Mike-repairman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 599
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Yes Colin, not sure why I got the title wrong; age thing I think. I have the green Columbia 45 somewhere.

Yes the 60's AC30's are very desirable these days; I have the AC15T version from the same era.

Mike.
Mike-repairman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 11:22 am   #313
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,295
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by knobtwiddler View Post
...Sending out a message that you can simply play these tapes (they could need baking) is deeply irresponsible IMO. The tape might be fine, sure. At the same time, it might play once, shed its oxide and that's that. There ought to have been warnings for viewers with old tapes.
Well, yes, it might need baking or shed oxide, but I think that’s extremely unlikely. I have personally replayed literally dozens of domestic and higher grade tapes on conventional tape decks and transcribed the content, and never once experienced a problem. Some dated back to the late 1950s. I have read that it’s the commercial tape formulations that were most prone to shedding their oxide layers, and even then only certain brands are prone to the problem.

I’d go so far as to suggest that reel to reel tape is far more secure as a long-term storage medium than any hard disk drive.
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 2:29 pm   #314
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 4,659
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

I would concur with that view re domestic grade tape Phil. I've never had the flaking but it's clear that it's a problem if you are working with an affected tape. I think the last example was the 70's Studio Master Tapes [Bob Marley recordings] found in a damp, derelict basement in London last year.

There's maybe often things to criticise about The Repair Shop but it's audience appeal is based primarily on the emotional aspect, the presenters and repairers etc with the actual technical detail coming well behind that. Add in the fact that they often don't cover the whole process, that others contribute behind the scenes, it's a theatrical "Barn" set up really..... and it's not perfect. Like Bake Off, though, it's produced as entertainment. That's the reason for it's success but there is much to be gained by what we do see of the renovation/repair work and the extraordinary skills exhibited.

Going back to post 304* did anyone see the program Harry Birrell Presents? I've never seen a child demonstrating 16mm film editing before. [I thought I'd flagged that separately but can't locate it now]

Dave
dave walsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 4:32 pm   #315
DMcMahon
Heptode
 
DMcMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 804
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobtwiddler View Post
...Sending out a message that you can simply play these tapes (they could need baking) is deeply irresponsible IMO. The tape might be fine, sure. At the same time, it might play once, shed its oxide and that's that. There ought to have been warnings for viewers with old tapes.
Well, yes, it might need baking or shed oxide, but I think that’s extremely unlikely. I have personally replayed literally dozens of domestic and higher grade tapes on conventional tape decks and transcribed the content, and never once experienced a problem. Some dated back to the late 1950s. I have read that it’s the commercial tape formulations that were most prone to shedding their oxide layers, and even then only certain brands are prone to the problem.

I’d go so far as to suggest that reel to reel tape is far more secure as a long-term storage medium than any hard disk drive.
I had some bad experiences last year with several (from different sellers) Ampex 10.5" NAB metal spool purchases that came loaded with tape (tape brand actually not known, but assumed to be Ampex).

Tape visually looked good but with virtually no usage oxide would shed off very quickly and seriously gum up amazingly quick the heads and guides, etc.

My first experience of Sticky Shed Syndrome !
DMcMahon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 5:16 pm   #316
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,295
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Ampex, that’s the stuff! Fortunately, few precious domestic recordings were ever made on 10.5” reels of Ampex...
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Havelock Ellis
Phil G4SPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 5:46 pm   #317
knobtwiddler
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 74
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

If the recording is precious, anyone who risks putting the tape into a domestic machine after 60 years is taking an enormous gamble. Even if it is a good brand, storage and batch variation will be a factor. True, hard disks do fail. But it would at least give you a safety copy to duplicate to CD. You could even back up to some new metal tape on a Telefunken M15 (should you be lucky enough to own such a masterpiece -)

These tapes from the 50s that played ok, I would say 2 things:

i) were these from pro machines and pro studios? If they were made on consumer machines, with carbon mics and the like, then they probably never had much above 5KHz to lose.

Ii) By the 50s, pro reel machines were getting seriously good. If you were to compare a ferric oxide tape from this era now, against a decent vinyl press from the time, I suspect you'd be quite shocked. Of course, how the tape has been stored is a massive factor.

I can only conclude the BBC programme spoke to a consultant and got a safety copy of the tape beforehand. Anything else would be reckless.

Group member Ted Kendall is a recognised authority on this topic. It wouldn't surprise me to hear he got a call from the Beeb wrt this very job!

Edit: in the programme, what is the chance the chap's father used the same stuff as Abbey Road?
knobtwiddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 6:34 pm   #318
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,295
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by knobtwiddler View Post
These tapes from the 50s that played ok, I would say... were these from pro machines and pro studios? If they were made on consumer machines, with carbon mics and the like, then they probably never had much above 5KHz to lose...
I don’t think any domestic machines came with carbon microphones.

Actually, the tapes I’ve transcribed were all non-professional makes, recorded on a variety of machines, from a 1950s Grundig Stenorette and a Miny (both rim-drive), through a miscellany of domestic machines including Walter, Philips and Grundig plus others unknown, to high-end domestic recorders including a Ferrograph Series Six and a Sony TC377. I also have many BASF tapes that were recorded several decades ago on a Revox A77. Every one of these tapes has replayed perfectly. I mostly use a restored Philips N4418 for playback as it’s quite versatile.

One recording stands out in my mind, of my sister singing at age 15 (she’s now 64!) recorded on a Grundig TK140 with its excellent original moving coil mic. The recording was found towards the end of a 5.75” reel of ‘Mastertape’ as crisp and clear as the day it was recorded!

By the way, I’ve also got lots of compact cassettes recorded on a variety of machines from the 60s and 70s, and the tape is in good condition on all of them.
__________________
Phil

“The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum” - Havelock Ellis

Last edited by Phil G4SPZ; 27th Mar 2020 at 6:41 pm. Reason: Afterthought
Phil G4SPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 6:46 pm   #319
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,585
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

Cynical Julie wonders whether they might not deliberately make an omission that could cause someone, through carelessness, to damage something valuable (but not harm themself or any onlookers) in order to persuade people that it might be better to seek expert advice with things you perhaps don't fully understand. A few people accidentally ruining their "baby tapes" might create a demand for services.
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Mar 2020, 7:00 pm   #320
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,974
Default Re: BBC TV: The Repair Shop

We're going back round the loop again. As previously worked out, it's an entertainment programme for mildly interested viewers, not a televisual Haynes manual. No pretence as to anything except entertainment. If it engenders any deeper interest so much the better.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:33 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2020, Paul Stenning.