HF conditions at the moment? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

trh01uk · 20th Jun 2020, 11:16 am

Folks,

anyone have any insight into what is going on with HF propagation at the moment?

The reason I ask is that I am not on the air normally, but I went to fix a friend's Kenwood TS-520S which is a 100W SSB set. It is set up with ATU and a simple 66 foot end fed antenna about 15 - 20 feet above the ground.

As a test two days ago we tried it on the air. 80m was totally silent. 40m was near the same - just a bit of morse. So in desperation we tried 20m. Got a contact instantly with MM7DWK up in Perth - we were near Devizes, Wiltshire. That's about 350 miles I think.

So the rules used to be:

80m for inter-G contacts
40m for inter-G too, but could get well into Europe as well
20m would never work for anything "local" - but fine for 1000 miles or more

I don't think the set was faulty. Indeed in that one contact an excellent report was received and given. The set tuned up fine into the various power meters on both 80m and 40m.

Richard
G7RVI

Malcolm G6ANZ · 20th Jun 2020, 11:34 am

Using my Howes direct conversion set that is now working.It only covers 80m. I've been hearing stations in the south east and London area at reasonable strength. The aerial is a random length about 20' at 15' high.
Malcolm

mickm3for · 20th Jun 2020, 12:02 pm

Hi bottom of the sun spot cycle so conditions are poor, Mick

M0AFJ, Tim · 20th Jun 2020, 12:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by trh01uk

anyone have any insight into what is going on with HF propagation at the moment?

Standard summertime conditions Richard especially at the bottom of the cycle. Was quite a bit of activity on 10M yesterday afternoon from Europe.

Restoration73 · 20th Jun 2020, 12:32 pm

There are nearly always some FT8 signals to be heard on most bands.
It's a great way to check your rx is working, even if you can't decode it.

trh01uk · 20th Jun 2020, 12:45 pm

Right - thanks for all those comments everyone. I think I will have to go back - with signal generator this time - and see if the receiver of the TS-520S is actually working OK on 40m and 80m. The silence - well noise only - was uncanny. It could be an alignment problem I suppose. A sensitivity test will quickly reveal all.

What really surprised me was that it was possible to get a 350 mile contact on 20m though. Never thought to try talking to someone in the UK on 20m before!

Richard

dodgy-dxer · 20th Jun 2020, 4:54 pm

Currently there are a LOT of quite intense periods of Sporadic E (but not much today Saturday 20/6)

That will be the likely reason for short skip like that on 20m

We are also just past a sunspot minimum but that isn't stopping DX coming in from the US and Caribbean last evening and Japan etc this morning on 20m

73 Fred
G4BWP

trh01uk · 21st Jun 2020, 3:52 pm

I was surprised not just by a short range contact on 20m, but also the total silence on 80m. I am presuming there was nothing funny about extra D-layer absorption going on, so I am concluding the TS-520S needs some re-alignment on 80m.

Richard
G7RVI

dodgy-dxer · 21st Jun 2020, 5:30 pm

I would check it with a signal generator first?

trh01uk · 21st Jun 2020, 6:01 pm

Absolutely. Only trouble is either the TS-520S has to be lugged from Devizes up to me in Ross-on-Wye, or I have to lug the generator in the other direction.

But yes, that is the sensible step - along with a set of alignment tools and instructions and an audio power meter to do the job. The weird thing is the set appears to be working normally on transmit - it tunes up fine and gives a good solid 100W on CW on all the bands up to 20m. Of course, the phantom twiddler may have been at work here......

Richard

dodgy-dxer · 22nd Jun 2020, 8:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by trh01uk

Absolutely. Only trouble is either the TS-520S has to be lugged from Devizes up to me in Ross-on-Wye, or I have to lug the generator in the other direction.

But yes, that is the sensible step - along with a set of alignment tools and instructions and an audio power meter to do the job. The weird thing is the set appears to be working normally on transmit - it tunes up fine and gives a good solid 100W on CW on all the bands up to 20m. Of course, the phantom twiddler may have been at work here......

Richard

How about the built in crystal calibrator?

In the "good old days" that was our "signal generator"

Can he hear that "loudly" on 80m? Normally the cal signal gets progressively weaker as you go up the bands. It goes in at the antenna connection before any RF tuned circuits.

73 Fred
G4BWP

M0AFJ, Tim · 22nd Jun 2020, 9:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by trh01uk

Right - thanks for all those comments everyone. I think I will have to go back - with signal generator this time - and see if the receiver of the TS-520S is actually working OK on 40m and 80m. The silence - well noise only - was uncanny. It could be an alignment problem I suppose. A sensitivity test will quickly reveal all.

What really surprised me was that it was possible to get a 350 mile contact on 20m though. Never thought to try talking to someone in the UK on 20m before!

Richard

I was running GB125NT yesterday, had 70 QSO’s on 20 SSB, most with G, GM, EI and GI with huge signals, did work one W in Illinois.
IC7610+PA to a home brew doublet

Peter.N. · 22nd Jun 2020, 10:31 am

It seems to vary a lot with the time of day, and from day to day. I have found 40m amd 80m virtually dead at times and yet there has been activity on 20m. 80m has been exceptionally good late at night for the last week or so but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it at the moment.

Peter

G6Tanuki · 22nd Jun 2020, 11:08 am

40, 60 and 80M are pretty dead daytime though things improve a bit in the early evening I find - 20 is worth a try during the day for inter-European stuff and maybe down into the Middle East, and a stable high-pressure area predicted to appear over the UK/Europe later this week could cause 10M to become active again with Sp.E like it was a few weeks back.

But hey! the unpredictability is all part of the fun of HF operating, isn't it?

trh01uk · 22nd Jun 2020, 8:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgy-dxer

How about the built in crystal calibrator?

In the "good old days" that was our "signal generator"

Can he hear that "loudly" on 80m? Normally the cal signal gets progressively weaker as you go up the bands. It goes in at the antenna connection before any RF tuned circuits.

73 Fred
G4BWP

Fred,

yes, good point. I did try the crystal calibrator just to check the frequency calibration but at that point didn't think of using it as a crude signal generator. Certainly if the calibrator signal is stronger on 20m than 80m, I would be strongly suspecting a fault in the receiver - and try re-alignment.

I will get the owner of the set to try that out and let me know. Thanks for that excellent suggestion!

73s

Richard
G7RVI

crackle · 23rd Jun 2020, 10:00 pm

Over the last week or so the 11m band has been intermittently very lively with all sorts of signals from Scotland N Ireland France Spain further off around Europe and Russia, and especially Italy. Sometimes they are strong enough to interfere with local communications of less than 2 miles.
I even heard what I thought was somebody calling from Queensland, Australia. But I couldn't get the local idiots rabbiting on the calling channel to shut up.
I have also heard reports from people contacting S America on 11m bands in recent days.
So yes the higher frequency bands are very lively, although 10m remains mostly silent.
Mike

Steve G4WCS · 23rd Jun 2020, 10:41 pm

Sorted my earth box out today so I can put fishing pole vertical wires up. Was rewarded with some very lively short skippy activity. Its nice that people are getting rediscovering radio

https://youtu.be/f9I7u661S1A

M0AFJ, Tim · 24th Jun 2020, 6:13 pm

Running the GB125NT special event station today from home on 20, was working 2 a minute at times, fantastic signals, even /P pedestrian stations at 5/9.

Steve G4WCS · 24th Jun 2020, 9:22 pm

Well done Tim, I do hope the uptake of people getting back on the radio carries on, it does make it a bit more worthwhile putting the effort in when theres some activity

G6Tanuki · 25th Jun 2020, 4:26 pm

A couple of days ago, after resurrecting an "I never got it to work properly" £15-at-a-rally Clansman PRC320, I was rewarded with a bunch of 28MHz QSOs into Germany/Oesterreich/Poland/Moldova, using only the radio's 8-foot whip antenna and battery-power.

With the Sun's emissions to help you, you can work the world with 30 Watts.

20th Jun 2020, 11:16 am	#1
trh01uk Octode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,654	HF conditions at the moment? Folks, anyone have any insight into what is going on with HF propagation at the moment? The reason I ask is that I am not on the air normally, but I went to fix a friend's Kenwood TS-520S which is a 100W SSB set. It is set up with ATU and a simple 66 foot end fed antenna about 15 - 20 feet above the ground. As a test two days ago we tried it on the air. 80m was totally silent. 40m was near the same - just a bit of morse. So in desperation we tried 20m. Got a contact instantly with MM7DWK up in Perth - we were near Devizes, Wiltshire. That's about 350 miles I think. So the rules used to be: 80m for inter-G contacts 40m for inter-G too, but could get well into Europe as well 20m would never work for anything "local" - but fine for 1000 miles or more I don't think the set was faulty. Indeed in that one contact an excellent report was received and given. The set tuned up fine into the various power meters on both 80m and 40m. Richard G7RVI Last edited by trh01uk; 20th Jun 2020 at 11:17 am. Reason: Addition

20th Jun 2020, 11:34 am	#2
Malcolm G6ANZ Octode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 1,042	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Using my Howes direct conversion set that is now working.It only covers 80m. I've been hearing stations in the south east and London area at reasonable strength. The aerial is a random length about 20' at 15' high. Malcolm

20th Jun 2020, 12:02 pm	#3
mickm3for Heptode Join Date: May 2015 Location: Chatham, Kent, UK. Posts: 964	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Hi bottom of the sun spot cycle so conditions are poor, Mick

20th Jun 2020, 12:32 pm	#5
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: HF conditions at the moment? There are nearly always some FT8 signals to be heard on most bands. It's a great way to check your rx is working, even if you can't decode it.

20th Jun 2020, 12:45 pm	#6
trh01uk Octode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,654	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Right - thanks for all those comments everyone. I think I will have to go back - with signal generator this time - and see if the receiver of the TS-520S is actually working OK on 40m and 80m. The silence - well noise only - was uncanny. It could be an alignment problem I suppose. A sensitivity test will quickly reveal all. What really surprised me was that it was possible to get a 350 mile contact on 20m though. Never thought to try talking to someone in the UK on 20m before! Richard

20th Jun 2020, 4:54 pm	#7
dodgy-dxer Heptode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 612	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Currently there are a LOT of quite intense periods of Sporadic E (but not much today Saturday 20/6) That will be the likely reason for short skip like that on 20m We are also just past a sunspot minimum but that isn't stopping DX coming in from the US and Caribbean last evening and Japan etc this morning on 20m 73 Fred G4BWP

21st Jun 2020, 3:52 pm	#8
trh01uk Octode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,654	Re: HF conditions at the moment? I was surprised not just by a short range contact on 20m, but also the total silence on 80m. I am presuming there was nothing funny about extra D-layer absorption going on, so I am concluding the TS-520S needs some re-alignment on 80m. Richard G7RVI

21st Jun 2020, 5:30 pm	#9
dodgy-dxer Heptode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newmarket, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 612	Re: HF conditions at the moment? I would check it with a signal generator first?

21st Jun 2020, 6:01 pm	#10
trh01uk Octode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 1,654	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Absolutely. Only trouble is either the TS-520S has to be lugged from Devizes up to me in Ross-on-Wye, or I have to lug the generator in the other direction. But yes, that is the sensible step - along with a set of alignment tools and instructions and an audio power meter to do the job. The weird thing is the set appears to be working normally on transmit - it tunes up fine and gives a good solid 100W on CW on all the bands up to 20m. Of course, the phantom twiddler may have been at work here...... Richard

22nd Jun 2020, 10:31 am	#13
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: HF conditions at the moment? It seems to vary a lot with the time of day, and from day to day. I have found 40m amd 80m virtually dead at times and yet there has been activity on 20m. 80m has been exceptionally good late at night for the last week or so but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it at the moment. Peter

22nd Jun 2020, 11:08 am	#14
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: HF conditions at the moment? 40, 60 and 80M are pretty dead daytime though things improve a bit in the early evening I find - 20 is worth a try during the day for inter-European stuff and maybe down into the Middle East, and a stable high-pressure area predicted to appear over the UK/Europe later this week could cause 10M to become active again with Sp.E like it was a few weeks back. But hey! the unpredictability is all part of the fun of HF operating, isn't it?

23rd Jun 2020, 10:00 pm	#16
crackle Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Basildon, Essex, UK. Posts: 4,100	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Over the last week or so the 11m band has been intermittently very lively with all sorts of signals from Scotland N Ireland France Spain further off around Europe and Russia, and especially Italy. Sometimes they are strong enough to interfere with local communications of less than 2 miles. I even heard what I thought was somebody calling from Queensland, Australia. But I couldn't get the local idiots rabbiting on the calling channel to shut up. I have also heard reports from people contacting S America on 11m bands in recent days. So yes the higher frequency bands are very lively, although 10m remains mostly silent. Mike

23rd Jun 2020, 10:41 pm	#17
Steve G4WCS Heptode Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 632	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Sorted my earth box out today so I can put fishing pole vertical wires up. Was rewarded with some very lively short skippy activity. Its nice that people are getting rediscovering radio https://youtu.be/f9I7u661S1A Attached Thumbnails

24th Jun 2020, 6:13 pm	#18
M0AFJ, Tim Hexode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Helston, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 303	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Running the GB125NT special event station today from home on 20, was working 2 a minute at times, fantastic signals, even /P pedestrian stations at 5/9. Last edited by M0AFJ, Tim; 24th Jun 2020 at 6:14 pm. Reason: Mistake

24th Jun 2020, 9:22 pm	#19
Steve G4WCS Heptode Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 632	Re: HF conditions at the moment? Well done Tim, I do hope the uptake of people getting back on the radio carries on, it does make it a bit more worthwhile putting the effort in when theres some activity

25th Jun 2020, 4:26 pm	#20
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: HF conditions at the moment? A couple of days ago, after resurrecting an "I never got it to work properly" £15-at-a-rally Clansman PRC320, I was rewarded with a bunch of 28MHz QSOs into Germany/Oesterreich/Poland/Moldova, using only the radio's 8-foot whip antenna and battery-power. With the Sun's emissions to help you, you can work the world with 30 Watts.