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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details. |
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6th Nov 2019, 9:13 pm | #21 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 469
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Re: Mellotron!
Tony Banks of Genesis is said to have bought the mellotron from Robert Fripp which was used on "In The Court Of The Crimson King"...and that it is that very instrument we hear on Watcher Of The Skies. Although he'd rented one for Trespass (1970) it was Steve Hackett who persuaded Banks to purchase one for Nursery Cryme (1971)...Hackett being a Crimson fan.
When Genesis had their first concerts in the USA there was terrible trouble getting their Mellotron to work properly, made worse by the relatively crude equipment they were using to convert 120V to 240V. I think both Collins and Banks have stated that on their first US tour the Mellotron never really worked properly with Banks and the stage technician constantly adjusting it. There's some hilarious footage of Rick Wakeman playing "the new Mellotron Sound" during recording sessions for Going For The One in 1977. Of course it was Wakeman who played on Bowie's Space Oddity, being considered the only keyboard player who knew how to keep the thing in tune. I love how it sounds so eerie....despite being recordings of actual instruments and voices it sounds unreal - and I mean that as a compliment. It has character of it's own also imbued by the 7 second tape length and rewind time....no note can last longer than 7 seconds and generally cannot be repeated rapidly. It leads to interesting chord structures (see Watcher) and playing techniques. And sounds glorious in it's own way. |
6th Nov 2019, 10:05 pm | #22 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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Re: Mellotron!
I remember hearing a program on prog-rock in the 80s where the Mellotron was discussed - apparently if you played some chords involving a large number of 'notes' at the same time, the total load on the drive-motor became enough that all the notes played slightly slow-and-wobbly!
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6th Nov 2019, 10:34 pm | #23 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolfen, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,588
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Re: Mellotron!
The first electronic keyboard instrument I was ever asked to repair was a Mellotron. The tapes had become mis-aligned and I spent an age getting it all working again.
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6th Nov 2019, 10:52 pm | #24 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Portland, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 870
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Re: Mellotron!
and adding to this there was the Orchestron and other derivatives of the film sound track style optical disc systems Mattel invented with the Optigan. Notably used by Kraftwerk for their string and choir sounds, of which the choir on Uranium was later sampled into the Emulator for Blue Monday. Also interesting is that the foremost Orchestron expert who has a lot of the master tapes reckons that the Orchestron choir is probably nicked from the Mellotron.
The only real advantage it had over the 'tron was that there was no 8? second time limit although plus supposedly the optical playback system was more robust, with sounds on plastic optical disks, the disadvantage, of course, was that sounds that relied on a specific envelope as the sound progressed could not be sampled very well unlike on the 'tron. It was also very Lo-Fi and did not sound as good as the 'tron. As for the 8 track based system that was the Birotron, I believe rick wakeman put some money into it and it had an envelope generator designed by Bob Moog. I believe wakeman got annoyed with his and set it on fire! Last edited by dglcomp; 6th Nov 2019 at 11:02 pm. |
7th Nov 2019, 8:29 am | #25 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
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Re: Mellotron!
There was also the 'Chamberlin', the earliest tape-organ from which the Mellotron was derived. There is an interesting tale of the Chamberlin salesman going rogue, running away with one and setting up abroad in opposition.
David
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7th Nov 2019, 9:05 am | #26 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ware, Herts. UK.
Posts: 1,082
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Re: Mellotron!
Quote:
One of Neve's competitors, Solid State Logic were still using Computer Automation Naked Mini computers to automate their VCA based mixing consoles when I left there in '89. There were a couple of aborted attempts to update the "studio computer" to something more modern and capable around my time there. All software for the Naked Mini based studio computer was written in assembler and the person who maintained it was a very capable but rather irascible engineer who sported the beard and cardigan look. He was of the opinion that high level programming languages would never catch on even though many SSL projects had been using C, C++ and Pascal for several years by that time. John |
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7th Nov 2019, 10:20 am | #27 | ||
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Portland, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 870
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Re: Mellotron!
Quote:
Here is a Wikipedia except on what supposedly happened, Quote:
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7th Nov 2019, 12:28 pm | #28 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,601
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Re: Mellotron!
I think David Nixon had something to do with designing it - lovely man.
Peter |
7th Nov 2019, 2:27 pm | #29 | |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
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Re: Mellotron!
Quote:
I didn't know, and the Mellotron book doesn't mention it, but I guessed that perhaps it was a product of the studio recording process at the time, the Mellotron playing via its own amplifier and speakers and being miked-up into the mixing desk. Each step in the chain introducing filtering effects. Dunno, but you are quite right about the weird sound.
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7th Nov 2019, 2:46 pm | #30 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 2,196
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Re: Mellotron!
I don’t know about the miking up or otherwise for musical applications of the Mellotron, but ISTR that the BBC sound effects version was directly connected to a desk input.
Martin
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8th Nov 2019, 1:43 pm | #31 |
Heptode
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 872
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Re: Mellotron!
Hi Chris,
Colin Crawford [the Cheltenham-based piano tuner and member of Sundae Club] has one ..... apparently it's not a good idea to hold the keys down for too long. Also .... one can [apparently] change the various tapes in order to achieve different notes etc. I suspect that they require regular and very frequent maintenance .....
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8th Nov 2019, 2:16 pm | #32 | |
Nonode
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,000
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Re: Mellotron!
Quote:
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8th Nov 2019, 3:38 pm | #33 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,800
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Re: Mellotron!
Probably the best in yer face mellotron was throughout King Crimson's 'In the Court of the Crimson King'. The most famous was the intro to the Beatles' Strawberry Fields.
The tape sets were intended to be 'easily' swapped so they could be set up with other sounds. This seems to be a new meaning of 'easily' David
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8th Nov 2019, 6:42 pm | #34 | |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ware, Herts. UK.
Posts: 1,082
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Re: Mellotron!
Quote:
John |
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8th Nov 2019, 7:08 pm | #35 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
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Re: Mellotron!
I'm sure the 240V ones worked really well on 60Hz.
Transpose down by 4 semis -ish. I really can't get used to mains hum in the key of B when it should be in G. It's better I stay at home. Last edited by Jon_G4MDC; 8th Nov 2019 at 7:17 pm. |
8th Nov 2019, 7:29 pm | #36 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,953
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Re: Mellotron!
Though in no way a musician, if I was musically-inclined I would have found the well-documented foibles - in particular the inconsistence, unpredictability and non-reproducibility - of the Mellotron deeply frustrating.
[Wrestling to tie down the vagaries of the instrument rather than focussing on the purity of the performance?] Perhaps that's why I generally find 'live' performances/recordings to be less-satisfying than their studio-equivalents? And also why everyone switched to digital synthesis/stored-program-content as soon as it became available/affordable? |
8th Nov 2019, 8:19 pm | #37 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,809
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Re: Mellotron!
Fair assessment. From the start, Mellotrons were always known to be a problematic, frustrating stage instrument that needed constant attention and nursing to work even remotely 'properly'. In the studio, a different thing. I love the sounds they make.
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8th Nov 2019, 9:18 pm | #38 |
Pentode
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire, UK.
Posts: 156
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Re: Mellotron!
I read this thread and remembered a DIY version I'd seen years ago. A quick search yeilded this link...
http://www.mysterycircuits.com/melloman/olmelloman.html Really clever Cheers, Andy. |
9th Nov 2019, 12:17 pm | #39 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
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Re: Mellotron!
Oh wow. I've just spent half an hour chuckling at his ingenuity and general barminess. I always think that while there are people in this world who take the time to do off-the-wall stuff like this, there may be hope for us yet.
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9th Nov 2019, 8:41 pm | #40 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
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Re: Mellotron!
That is quite a project - was it sponsored by Sony? How many walkmans?
Lots of fun all the same. As for the 'Engineers Dream' Mellotron where everything is perfect compared with the actual one, that's just how real world musical instruments behave. I think that music is in the arts not the sciences because of all those so called deficiencies. |