Wanted Video/Audio WWII Aircraft chatter etc

[NickG0HIK]

Hi All,

Does anyone know of a source of MP3/MP4 Audio or visual media from WWII Bomber chatter.

There are several on YouTube, but I wish to play them on a stand-alone media player that is not connected to the internet.

Many thanks

Nick G0HIK

[wave solder]

Personally I would just grab them from YouTube using a downloader then convert them to the required format using Audacity but YouTube frowns upon such actions.

[NickG0HIK]

Thanks,

That's one option, I might have to try that, I guess not a copyright issue for just personal use.

Nick

[ScottBouch]

Originally Posted by NickG0HIK

Hi All,

Does anyone know of a source of MP3/MP4 Audio or visual media from WWII Bomber chatter.

There are several on YouTube, but I wish to play them on a stand-alone media player that is not connected to the internet.

Many thanks

Nick G0HIK

Hi Nick.

I use a Linux command line program called youtube-dl to grab videos form YouTube. it has a nice option to only capture the audio too, so would help your project out. https://youtube-dl.org/

If you are not a Linux user, I don't mind doing one or two for you and sending you the audio file. (share the links to the videos here)

Some YouTube videos have been uploaded with a Creative Commons license (will be shown below the descriptive text) which will indicate if the uploader was happy for you to download and edit the footage. This is interesting though, as it's just a tick box option set by the person who uploaded it, what about the original photographers/producers views on licencing?

My personal thoughts are that there should be no tax on knowledge, and any historic footage like this has way more educational benefit to a wider audience, than driving Google's profits through YouTube advertising.

Not quite WW2, but you may find these sound clips I recorded in an EE Lightning of interest: https://scottbouch.com/aircraft-uk-audio-samples.htm

Cheers, Scott

[M0SOE_Bruce]

I use a free program called Audacity. It's used to create/edit audio files like photoshop is to pictures. It can capture any audio that can be heard on speakers or headphones, even the audio from videos.

[Radio Wrangler]

WWII was wartime, so bombers didn't chatter. Any transmitting could draw unfriendly attention. Even on the ground, HF radio risks being heard over surprising distances and can reveal the start and scale of a raid. So very terse transmissions were the rule and often in morse. Films exaggerate the amount of radio traffic as a plot device to bring the viewer along. People's expectations are now formed by films. Few of those who have personal experience are still with us nowadays.

David

[ScottBouch]

Multi-seat aircraft would generally be fitted with an intercom system to allow all crew members to communicate without radio transmission, could this be what the original question was regarding?

PS: Another related restoration hobby of mine; see attached.

PPS: Yes, Audacity is excellent too.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

I don't think any recording would be 'owned' by anyone at the moment, unless there's some particular niggle for an individual item, as it's so long ago. Broadcast media is 50 years I think. Unless the YouTube clip you're interested in is from Pathe or a big organisation, you'll probably find the uploader is an enthusiast who got it from a broadcast radio programme or compilation CD rather than anything to do with Bomber Command or the MoD.

There's the famous intercom 'don't all shout at once' segment which is purported to be from when BBC reporters were embedded in bomber crews. I don't know how reliable or otherwise staged it is, but it certainly fulfils the vision we all imagine of how the crews behaved, which is as Radio Wrangler reminds us, formed by The Dambusters etc.

I'd do the Audacity route - there are FireFox addons for YT downloads.

[ScottBouch]

Ref, Dambusters film.. I read the other day that the pilots used had never flown large bombrs before, and were throwing the Lancasters around like fighters!

80 years this year since the Dambusters raids...

[Ted Kendall]

Intercom chatter was as vital to the aircraft's survival as was radio silence. Munro was forced to abort from the dams raid because a flak hit took out his intercom, and on less specialised raids the gunners had to be able to warn the pilot of approaching fighters. BBC reporters flew on many raids- one reporter was lost, but Richard Dimbleby survived thirty raids, beating the prevailing odds. I doubt if any actuality recorded on these missions was staged - the stakes were too high.

[Radio Wrangler]

During WWII the allies had large wire recorders which were somewhat problematical, otherwise sound could be recorded directly on a disc cutter! The Germans had tape recorders (also large) But the allies were a bit confused about how Hitler moved around so quickly giving speeches from different regions on their radio services. We hadn't known of the magnetophon tape recorders and the quality was better than we believed our technology could have recorded.

So recording audio in a flying bomber would have been very disruptive and probably not successful. This would limit the availability of real intercom audio. Ground based recording onto wire, cut disc or optical film would have been possible, but the radio transmissions would have been very very terse, probably coded short messages in Morse.

David

[trh01uk]

I went to have a listen to some of the files on YT, to see what kind of "chatter" was captured. I found this link in one of the file notes, which I see has MP3 files on offer: http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/sub/mshwlnak.htm

To my relatively ignorant ears, these files sound authentic, but I wonder in that case how they were recorded, given the practical difficulties that Radio Wrangler has described? That webpage above indicates that "disk" recordings were made, so we have to imagine someone with disc cutting recorder on the flight, and being allowed to tap directly into the intercom audio system - not sure which would be more difficult!


Richard

[ScottBouch]

What an interesting few clips! Brilliant!

I use an adaptor I made for "tapping into" intercom systems in aircraft.. it consists of a plug and socket to fit inline with a headset, with a branch off to a box containing a 1:1 isolating transformer, DC blocking capacitors, and resistor dropper network to take headset volume down to microphone level for recording by Android phone or video camera etc. ie: it wouldn't need to be wired in to the system if the BBC put together a similar in-line branch adaptor.

The sounds I recorded here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...74&postcount=4 were taken using this adaptor.

[turretslug]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria

There's the famous intercom 'don't all shout at once' segment which is purported to be from when BBC reporters were embedded in bomber crews. I don't know how reliable or otherwise staged it is, but it certainly fulfils the vision we all imagine of how the crews behaved, which is as Radio Wrangler reminds us, formed by The Dambusters etc.

I've always been a bit dubious about that well-known clip, it seems a bit too "stagey"- as you say, as how a script director would wish a weary public to perceive "our boys". I'm prepared to stay open-minded about it, though. I gather that the forming-up of bomber crews was often pretty much self-selecting and could be as informal as bonding over drinks in the bar- no doubt this resulted in what we would now call "teams" with a widely varying spread of overall character from tight-lipped and procedural to happy-go-lucky. The respected historian Max Hastings recounts a tale of a Canadian crew whose pilot celebrated his 21st birthday by repeatedly circling over the target area as the rest of the crew sang "Happy Birthday" over the intercom! I wouldn't be surprised though if most crews were kept in line by the officers on board with intercom chat being terse and sparse, edgy young men dreading the sudden yell of "Corkscrew!"

[The Philpott]

Interested to know how Nick gets on with transfer from YT, and if there is 'blocking-ware' in place from a copyright standpoint. There's an unfortunate trend towards claiming ownership even when the claim is on very shaky ground.

I must admit that (so far) i'm unable to find any aspect of these short intercom audio clips that we're so familiar with, that casts solid doubt on them. The words 'Come on, T for Tommy' could be explained by the yellow or red fuselage markings of another a/c being plainly visible in searchlights, with the voice willing it to dive out of the cone. Alternatively the recording a/c could actually be callsign Tommy and the pilot is 'encouraging' the engines. There's a modicum of swearing here and there which tends against this being staged- and there might have been 50 or 80 recordings made with only the best 3 being used (or indeed usable, or popularly known) for various reasons- including malfunction, interference, unintelligibility, inappropriate language, flak concussion or loss of the aircraft.

'There goes the cookie' probably indicates the a/c suddenly leaping upwards from the loss of 4,000lb in weight- rather than the switch being thrown.

Strictly speaking off topic, but having said that it's plain that more people would be interested in genuine recordings than in staged ones.

Dave

[trh01uk]

Originally Posted by ScottBouch

What an interesting few clips! Brilliant!

I use an adaptor I made for "tapping into" intercom systems in aircraft.. it consists of a plug and socket to fit inline with a headset, with a branch off to a box containing a 1:1 isolating transformer, DC blocking capacitors, and resistor dropper network to take headset volume down to microphone level for recording by Android phone or video camera etc. ie: it wouldn't need to be wired in to the system if the BBC put together a similar in-line branch adaptor.

Scott,

I was imagining that the bomber maintenance technicians who would be responsible for everything operating properly could become very "territorial" regarding anyone messing with one of their installations. In a similar way, the old GPO used to be extremely paranoid about anyone connecting anything to their phone lines, which is why we ended up with acoustic couplers for a considerable period.

And by "wired in" I was meaning "make a connection to", and in that sense your adaptor you describe is "wired in".

Of course, the technicians, being military personnel, would no doubt obey orders, and simply make the requested connection, keeping any protests to themselves.


Richard

[Ted Kendall]

To my relatively ignorant ears, these files sound authentic, but I wonder in that case how they were recorded, given the practical difficulties that Radio Wrangler has described? That webpage above indicates that "disk" recordings were made, so we have to imagine someone with disc cutting recorder on the flight, and being allowed to tap directly into the intercom audio system - not sure which would be more difficult!

Dimbleby's despatches were recorded on disc in the aircraft - one example in Archives has disruptions caused by the difficulties of using a disc cutter in a corkscrewing bomber. Wire recordings were more used by the Americans - Brush, for one, were producing portable wire machines in quantity.

[E93AFAN]

I do not know your level of computer literacy, so please forgive me if my response patronises you. Firstly, I have not used Windows for 10+ years, and so my response is as a Linux user.

The simple way to download YouTube video and audio is to use the Firefox or Chrome browser, as I tend to shy away from Chrome because of it's Google roots my instructions are for Firefox.

First navigate to "AddOns", then select "Extensions", in the search dialog enter "Video DownloadHelper", then select the entry from the list and install the extension, it's very straightforward. Once installed it is very easy to select and download most formats and files, there are simple user instructions that can be found online via a web search.

If you are a Linux user then once the file is downloaded then assuming want to use the whole clip but in a different format (perhaps MP3) use an application such as Sound Converter or if you need to edit the file then use Audacity to first edit and then save the audio and convert it to whatever format you wish to use.

Audacity is available for Windows and has a well supported user community, it is also safe to use in a Windows environment I believe if security is an issue for you, but clearly you should verify this yourself before adding it to your PC and also check to ensure you download the application from the original source at https://www.audacityteam.org/.