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Old 8th May 2021, 2:52 pm   #61
onewatt
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Ok,

I'm visiting site on Monday to collect books and paperwork from a lifetimes interest in electronics. I'll probably have to filter afterwards and it may take me until next weekend, but I'll see what I can find on softy2.

Some more pics which hopefully work for all.
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File Type: zip IMG_5862.zip (2.82 MB, 14 views)
File Type: zip IMG_5865.zip (2.24 MB, 13 views)
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Old 8th May 2021, 3:36 pm   #62
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

The screened printing says S4.1, but the copper says S4.2.
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Old 8th May 2021, 3:50 pm   #63
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

I have quite a few PROM programmers in my collection but the only bi-polar programmer is this one which belongs to my Motorola development system.


http://www.garronn-electronics.co.uk/4616.html
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Old 9th May 2021, 5:03 am   #64
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzby123 View Post
The screened printing says S4.1, but the copper says S4.2.
S4.2 is on the underside (Layer 2?) of the PCB. And S4.1 is only on the top (Usually called Layer 1).
So I would presume they used the number after the point to mark the PCB's phototools artwork, so they knew which phototool sheets needed to go where when the PCB was being made.

And maybe the '4' signifies the version of PCB for that product - Issue 4
- It's a bit confusing, being as they mostly dropped the Softy name after the Softy-2, replacing it with hand-held 'S3', and then an 'S4' (before the current S6, which isn't standalone anymore!)

Last edited by ortek_service; 9th May 2021 at 5:08 am.
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Old 9th May 2021, 8:20 am   #65
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wave solder View Post
I have quite a few PROM programmers in my collection but the only bi-polar programmer is this one which belongs to my Motorola development system.


http://www.garronn-electronics.co.uk/4616.html
Do you have any pictures of that development system fully assembled? It doesnít look familiar but might be because of its disassembled state.

I think it might be worth moving that post to its own thread. Is there a model number to use in the thread title?
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Old 9th May 2021, 10:32 am   #66
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark1960 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave solder View Post
I have quite a few PROM programmers in my collection but the only bi-polar programmer is this one which belongs to my Motorola development system.


http://www.garronn-electronics.co.uk/4616.html
Do you have any pictures of that development system fully assembled? It doesnít look familiar but might be because of its disassembled state.

I think it might be worth moving that post to its own thread. Is there a model number to use in the thread title?
There was a thread on this forum back in 2007 about it.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=14671

There is very little information about the system on the Internet but I did find this page in French:-

http://www.silicium.org/oldskool/us/motorola_pds.htm
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Old 9th May 2021, 6:15 pm   #67
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

This Motorola Polyvalent Development System (PDS) gets a mention in this Microcomputers In Great Britain Low-Cost Laboratory-Computing 1978 research paper (along with SC/MP and other systems), as a low-cost version of the more famous Motorola EXORciser / Motorola EXORterm: https://link.springer.com/content/pd...BF03205354.pdf

The EXORciser did interface to a separate EXORdisk 1-4 Floppy Disk unit / EXORtape Paper tape unit / ?? Cassette, operator terminal, a MACE 29/800 Emulator-pods system and a User System Evalulator (USE). Burr Brown made I/O modules that were compatible with the Motorola Micromodule Family Bus used in the EXORciser etc.
- The cards in it do look a bit like the S100 universal bus ones, that seem to be now getting more popular with retro/vintage computer people. although there were many similar sized ones back then. I've got a SWTPC 6800 'Minicomputer' that uses pin rather than edge connectors: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/d...39/SWTPC-6800/


I do recall seeing Motorola developments systems in one of their databooks / Application Manuals (1975?).- maybe the M6800 Support Products Brochure (May 1976?). I've had a look through all the 6800 Manuals / Books I've got, including an original printed-copy of the MEX68PP3 PROM Programmer-III (for EXORciser etc) User's Guide
- It seems software was on EDOS or MDOS disk, for EXORciser EXbug, but casssette / paper tape was used for other monitor ROM's / systems.

There's probably various Motorola 6800 ones on bitsavers / archive.org / here:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/c...nt_Systems.pdf (1979 version, but does briefly mention PDS etc)
http://www.exorciser.net/excorciser2_en.htm
http://www.exorciser.net/personal/ex...de/eugbrow.pdf
http://www.exorciser.net/personal
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...uter-484170314
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Old 9th May 2021, 11:25 pm   #68
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

The M6800_Microprocessor_Applications_Manual_1975 is amongst similar ones, here: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/c...motorola/6800/
- But it seems too old to include the PDS, and only has the (original?) EXORciser

I found there is actually quite a bit of info on the various boards & M68MD1 5" CRT Monitor / M68MPR1 Printer etc. parts of the PDS in the 1979 catalogue: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/c...nt_Systems.pdf
- However it's a bit all over the place, with searching on "Polyvalent" the easiest way of finding everything in it.

Confusing there seems to be several different ones in the Polyvalent Development Systems Family, which all use the same M68SAC1 (921.6KHz) Stand Alone Computer board etc.:
- M68TDS1 to M68TDS4 M6800 Total Development Systems (TDS)
- The M68ADS / ADW. Autonomous Development Systems
- The M68MEB1 Microprocessor Evaluation Board


Even more confusing, is there's a M68PPR2 PDS PROM Programmer (for the PDS-systems) board - on page 1-89 of the 1979 catalogue, that says 'uses the +5V Ī 12V PDS pus power supply', but only lists support for 6 main Motorola (TTL Fusible link PROM's & EPROMs) IC types: MCM7640, MCM7680, MCM68708/2708 (3-rail), MCM7641, MCM7681, TMS2716 (3-rail)

Whereas, your picture shows the MEX68PP3 EROM/PROM Programmer Module (for the EXORciser-system), which says 'EXORciser and Micromodule Family bus compatible' and '57 different EROMs and PROMs can be programmed' - Inc. MCM2716, Intel-2716, Intel-2758 (single-rail) devices in my 1978 2nd Ed, User's Guide for this.

However, as both use the same 86-pin backplane edge-connector, it seemed odd they had these 2 similar-looking but different versions.
- Although it appears the MEX68PP3 does support single-rail EPROM's, that might not be supported by the (maybe lower-cost) M68PPR2
(Plus I don't know if the clock on the EXORciser is 2MHz clock - rather than just under 1MHz on the PDS M68SAC1 board).

Last edited by ortek_service; 9th May 2021 at 11:37 pm.
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Old 10th May 2021, 12:11 am   #69
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I'm guessing that if you can take a shot of the underside of the PCB, we'd probably like that one in the same super hi-res as top view.

As Owen said, if you can positively identify the +5V and 0V supply rails you can probably power it up to the extent that it will produce a UHF RF signal which can be tuned in on an analogue TV. That's assuming that you don't have the actual power supply for it of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewatt View Post
I'm visiting site on Monday to collect books and paperwork from a lifetimes interest in electronics. I'll probably have to filter afterwards and it may take me until next weekend, but I'll see what I can find on softy2.

Some more pics which hopefully work for all.
Back to the original post - On what turned out to be a Softy-2:

I've been having a look over the PCB Photos, and found a few things.

1. The DC Power input DIN-Socket is actually 3-pin (even though it looks like a 5-pin one), as there's actually only 3 pins on underside of the PCB (Front 2 are shield ground). If you look carefully, it appears there's only 3 contacts in the holes (unless they used a 5pin one and cut the PCB-pins 4&5 off).

To ensure the correct pin numbers are referred to, I looked for a 5-pin etc. DIN socket picture on the 'net, with the Correct-view ones on it - which was surprisingly difficult to find (Wikipedia etc. doesn't show any numbers, and many are actually the mirrored opposite-view into mating-pins end of plug even though they say it's the socket). But this one does seem right: https://connector.pinouts.ru/5_pin_DIN_female/

2. The middle of the '5' (actually 3?) contacts (Pin 2) is Ground (0V)

3. Pin 1 (The top-right, when looking into socket, with board the correct way-up) goes into the emitter of TR5, whose collector (& Tab) goes to IC13 (7445) Pin16 (Vcc=+5V). So this must be a PNP transistor, and appears to be used in conjunction with TR1/2/3/4 & DZ2(4V3?) to form a (Low-dropout) +5V regulator. So I would guess that voltage on the connector Pin1 would be around +6V - Trying +5.5V to start with and monitoring voltage on the +5V rail should be fairly-safe. Or alternatively, just connecting +5.0V directly to TR5 tab etc. should also be OK.

4. Pin 3 (The top-left, when looking into socket, with board the correct way-up) goes into the input of a 100mA voltage regulat (VR1), whose 'Gnd / Adj' centre-pin goes to cathode of DZ3(20V?) with DZ4 anode to ground. I'm not sure what this regulator type is, as I the photos don't show the right view, but if it was a standard 78L05 this would give +25V output for use as the Vpp programming voltage. So I would guess that voltage on the connector Pin3 would be around +28 to +30V (But should only be required for actually programming EPROM's with it).

So hopefully it should be possible to power it up, even if the original PSU can't be located.

Last edited by ortek_service; 10th May 2021 at 12:21 am.
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Old 10th May 2021, 8:37 am   #70
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Good analysis Owen - I think we'd best now give onewatt a chance to see if he can find any documentation to confirm what you've worked out.

With regard to DIN plug pin numbering, that has always been a little bit odd, it's as though they started off with 3-pin and then every time they added more pins, they retained the numbering and positioning of the already existing pins and inserted the additional ones 'in between'.
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Old 10th May 2021, 9:16 pm   #71
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
Good analysis Owen - I think we'd best now give onewatt a chance to see if he can find any documentation to confirm what you've worked out.
Yes, If he does find a copy of the rather-rare manual, then it would be very-useful to see what's inside that. Although as the Softy-2 was no longer available as a kit, plus supplied with PSU, then I wouldn't be surprised if they no longer gave you detailed info on the PSU connector etc.
- If only there was someone we could find who's got a Softy-2 PSU, as surprisingly it seems Softy-2's are now rarer than the original Softy-1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
With regard to DIN plug pin numbering, that has always been a little bit odd, it's as though they started off with 3-pin and then every time they added more pins, they retained the numbering and positioning of the already existing pins and inserted the additional ones 'in between'.
The DIN pin-numbering system was intentional, with 3pin the 'base-standard' and more pins filling in the gaps so that the pin numbers wouldn't alter if you plugged a 3 pin one into a 5pin 180deg or 5pin into 7pin etc.
However, 4pin types and all the deliberately 270deg 360deg etc. wouldn't mate with these so were rather different
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Old Yesterday, 8:28 pm   #72
onewatt
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

Hi Guys ,
I Collected a large amount of stuff but no paperwork yet, although the manuals and instructions for a substantial amount of equipment is boxed ready for next trip.
if there was documentation available when the softy was purchased Iíd be very surprised if itís not here.
Iíll update again when I have more to offer.
Regards
Chris
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Old Yesterday, 9:34 pm   #73
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Default Re: Early EPROM programmer.

That is great sounds like you are picking up some interesting things!
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