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Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment For discussions about vintage test gear and workshop equipment such as coil winders.

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Old 9th Jan 2011, 2:13 pm   #41
G4XWDJim
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Default Re: Which lathe?

I have a Myford ML7 which I bought just secondhand for £60 in about 1964. It was immaculate and hardly used. It had a vertical milling slide, an indexing attachment, faceplate, centres and lots of tools. I've used it a lot and keep it well covered with oiled cloths under a fitted vinyl cover my wife sewed up for me. It's still almost immaculate and I couldn't imagine life without it.
With a bench grinder, pillar drill and welder there's nothing you can't make. I even do wood work on my lathe although it's a bit slow for that.
As an apprentice I used a new Smart and Brown 5" lathe and have lusted after one for years. What a beautiful machine but three phase needed and a lot of space.

Jim
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 2:18 pm   #42
AlanBeckett
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Default Re: Which lathe?

Jim,

Without wishing to go round the usual block I would suggest that £60 was quite a substantial sum in '64 - about 8 weeks gross wages for me. In fact that was a major reason I took up Electronic instead of Mechanics - the tools were just too expensive.
On the other hand, I think you'd have to say that you've had your monies worth

Alan
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 2:44 pm   #43
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Most useful accessory? Surely a spirit level to make sure the lathe bed in perfectly flat and not twisted when bolting and packing the lathe to a concrete floor?

Laugh ye not, even a cast iron bed can distort on a poor foundation - and a warped bed from mounting to an old railway sleeper won't produce a parallel shaft, no matter how accurate the tail stock centre or lathe jaws are ground!

The essential goodie I would suggest is a powered cross-slide.

My first lathe was a Myford 7 - brilliantly versatile but not brilliantly accurate and had limitiations in cutting large pitches and diameter screw threads in restoring ancient woodworking machinery. I gave up and got myself a 1947 Colchester Triumph - a lovely lathe, but far too slow for modern carbide cutters.

Not sure about modern 'badged' Chinese lathes. From what I have seen of widely sold modern woodworking machinery, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole! But it is horses for courses!

One can easily swap 3-phase motor for a single-phase although you could get away with a phase converter for short runs. My choice? Unimat for small stuff, Myford 7 or Boxford for general use and any Colchester for serious work.

Oh! And don't forget to take your tie off before working on a lathe!

Barry
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 2:47 pm   #44
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Default Re: Which lathe?

I have to say that I and my father have bought machine tools of Far Eastern origin in the past and they have been absolute carp, requiring much work to put them into a usable state. This was some years ago, so perhaps the quality has now improved.

I'm not unduly patriotic, but were I to buy more machine tools I'd first look at second hand British stuff.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 2:58 pm   #45
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Default Re: Which lathe?

I have a nice second hand boxford. It has given a good service for 22 years. It has turned things from 1mm pins to 8inch brake disks. I think I paid £300 for it then, but I have seen them go on Ebay for as little as £400 now. That is a good price for a lathe that will last years.

Daniel.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 3:04 pm   #46
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Default Re: Which lathe?

I too have a Boxford. It's a long bed machine with a screw cutting gearbox and imperial feedscrews. Too big for some jobs and too small for others.

What I could do with is a lathe with a big hole through the headstock spindle, say 1 1/2". I'll need a new workshop first though.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 3:42 pm   #47
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'Station X', I have just the lathe for you; it has a 4 ft dia face plate (honest!) and 5ft between centres. Is overhead shaft and belt driven, 6 speeds (flat out at 300rpm)! It is either a shipwright's or railway lathe from the turn of the (last) century! It weights 2tons ... but is not for sale as I still use it!

All my wodworking machinery is 'pre-war', one is pre Boer War! The beauty about most British machinery is that they are fully adjustable for wear - gib plates etc- unlike modern stuff which has to be thrown away as irrepairable or 'no spare parts'. Have you tried getting brushes for new motors?

As for 'budget' cutting tools - forget them and buy a decent British made bit! Sadly so few British companies have survived due to the low-priced DIY/Trade market that even their names are appearing on cheap rubbish.

I'm getting old!
Barry
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 4:17 pm   #48
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Default Re: Which lathe?

Hi,

At last the right answer but first please let me tell the story.

As a 16 year old apprentice mechanical engineer and having completed the hand tool part of the 6 month training course at the National Coal Board training centre in Crigglestone near Wakefield we were introduced to a line up of beautiful Colchester engineering lathes these looking brand new and we were all keen to play with them.

The instructor got us apprentices together in a group and ran through safety procedures etc. After this he went on to explain all about the lathe and the accessories; at the end of the introduction we were asked what we would regard the most important accessory following his talk.

Like the answers on this forum we eventually covered just about everything including transport to work and the building housing the lathes; his answer was "You". No one got the correct answer.

Go to the top of the class Chris you are bang on; without the operator a lathe is totally useless. This point was pressed home by the instructor explaining a lathe doesn't understand the difference between the operator or any of the many accessories regarding all the same so the difference is that with the best lathe in the world fitted with every accessory possible it's not going to do a thing unless the operator presses the start button.

Nice try Brian; you were thinking on the right lines.

Sorry to tease but I've attended many such training courses since those far off days all encouraging me to think about the whole picture. One such question during a team briefing course was if you lived in a bungalow with four walls and each wall contained a window and each window was facing south "what colour is the bear". I didn't get this one either but then I'm rather dim. As I don't wish to go off topic the answer is "white" it being a polar bear as the bungalow is situated bang on the north pole.

The point of all this is that it has stuck with me and hopefully comes through in my projects as I tackle various problems. We have many novices on this forum and whilst I think it is great to promote buying machinery such as lathes and mills; a novice with a brand new lathe and all the accessories sitting in front of him/her will find the lot useless unless they learn to use it and I was hoping to see lathes explained in detail; after all anyone with the money can easily buy a lathe and even if the lathe proves later to be unsuitable nothing is really lost because it can be sold and another bought; seldom is the first lathe bought kept 50 years by the same owner; I've owned many lathes and enjoyed every one.

I know Tony; Alan; David; Mike Phelan and myself have owned lathes for many years and it could be possible that between us we may have accumulated 250 years experience; this is just a small group of five members with a wealth of tips and stories to pass on to the novices; I was a novice at one point but feel it so important to keep the old skills alive whether it be traditional finishing of cabinets or using machines.

I honestly would find it most difficult to pick what I consider the most important lathe accessory as there are so many and would like to see the subject expanded upon.

I've already told David that if he ever throws out his beautiful little watch makers lathe to throw it my way as it looks to be a gem.

Kind regards, Col.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 7:30 pm   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
Most useful accessory? Surely a spirit level to make sure the lathe bed in perfectly flat and not twisted when bolting and packing the lathe to a concrete floor?
Ish. It depends on the lathe. The Chipmaster, for example, has its own stand and is deliberately designed to stand on its own (adjustable) 3 feet. Provided there's no gross irregularities in the floor it won't care. You might, but it won't. On the other hand with small lathes I've skimmed up a piece of channel to give it something straight and flat to sit on. As Tony says, there's a lot to be said for the old cantilever designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
... the essential goodie i would suggest is a powered cross-slide.
I think I'd choose a screwcutting gearbox before that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
..... And got myself a 1947 colchester triumph - a lovely lathe, but far too slow for modern carbide cutters.
A splendid piece of machinery. On the other hand it might prove a bit brutal for a pot spindle I've got a couple of pre-war Bantams - one's out on loan. Not exactly watchmaker size, but actually surprisingly accurate given half a chance. As with lots of things quality counts - there's no disadvantage to having 'The Colchester Lathe Co.' written on it, just like Tektronix on 'scopes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
my choice? Unimat for small stuff, myford 7 or boxford for general use and any colchester for serious work.
I'd go along with that, although they don't have much 'interest'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
oh! And don't forget to take your tie off before working on a lathe!
There lies the advantage of retirement - what tie?

Alan
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 12:15 pm   #50
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Default Re: Which lathe?

Hello Alan,

I'd agree about a screw-cutting gearbox being 'nice' but I wouldn't say it was 'an essential' accessory as most short threads can be cut quickly with a tailstock die holder.

Having to change cogs and adjust idler brackets to the correct tpi makes you keep a keen eye on maintenance issues. An old British car or motorcycle needed a weekend service to keep in fine fettle and rarely broke down through lack of care and attention, but modern machinery usually fails through complacency towards basic servicing and double checking before pressing the button - and removing the shredded tie!

All my lathes have/had an Imperial lead screw and require one 63T gear, say, to convert to metric - which I don't use - but out of curiosity, how easy is it to cut Imperial threads on a modern metric lead screw lathe?

Barry
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 12:49 pm   #51
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Default Re: Which lathe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
Hello Alan,

I'd agree about a screw-cutting gearbox being 'nice' but I wouldn't say it was 'an essential' accessory as most short threads can be cut quickly with a tailstock die holder.


All my lathes have/had an Imperial lead screw and require one 63T gear, say, to convert to metric - which I don't use - but out of curiosity, how easy is it to cut Imperial threads on a modern metric lead screw lathe?

Barry
The screw cutting facility is handy to cut single layer HF coil formers if your interested in that aspect of radio, with regard to cutting imperial threads with a metric lead screw, its just a question of having the right change wheels, my Myford Super 7 has a metric 3mm pitch lead screw, over the years I've managed to build up a selection of non standard change wheels, 18T, 19T, 28T, 31T, 33T, 48T & 57T, with these and the standard ones I can cut almost any pitch thread I'm likely to need.

John
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 2:13 pm   #52
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Default Re: Which lathe?

To cut metric threads on an imperial lathe you need a compund gear with 100 and 127 teeth. 127/100=2.54 which is the number of centimetres in an inch.

To cut imperial threads on a metric lathe you need a compound gear with 135 and 127 teeth.

I've only once cut a metric thread on my imperial lathe. It was for a bottom bracket nut for an imported cycle. LHT too from what I remember.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 2:40 pm   #53
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It was probably a left-hand thread as they ride on the other side of the road/pavement abroad! Bring back Cycle Thread!

Thanks for reminding me about the compound ratios - silly me! As I said, I'm getting old!

Barry
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 10:47 pm   #54
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Interesting topic. I am currently attempting to demonstrate my "worthiness" to an old gentleman to take possession of a C2 Pittler lathe with lots of accessories. This fellow is an old wise tool maker and is in his late 90s. I was helping him clean up his workshop and noticed a lot of machine parts wrapped in oiled hessian. And I mean a lot! One part I noticed was the odd shaped pentagon bar. I made the offhand comment that it looked like a Pittler lathe bed. My friend's eyes lit up when I said that. He has had it all of his life as it was handed down through the generations. No-one else has been able to identify it. I have been the first in many years. I think he is on the way to giving it to me as there is no-body else in his family even remotely interested in anything mechanical. He wants someone to treasure it and I will do that most certainly.
Sometimes it is good to have a broad general knowledge. Just by passing a simple comment as I did, it may lead to a very valuable find.
Robert.
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 10:52 pm   #55
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Robert,
If and when you get it you could send some pictures to Tony - http://www.lathes.co.uk/pittler/index.html
Alan
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 11:38 am   #56
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Seeing photos of that German 'Pittler' lathe explains why so many companies disappeared - their machinery never wore out, so no one had need to buy a replacement! The "war-time utility" machines did the job, using rolled or pressed steel construction, but didn't last anywhere near as long.

I have a treadle pillar drill (circa 1910) and a treadle rip-saw (circa 1895), both with leather belt drive off a massive cast iron flywheel. After 3 Weetabix's worth of treadling, speed and momentum are sufficently fast to do some work before stamina fails, but as soon as the bit/saw first bites, it stops dead! Now I know why they fitted overhead shaft/belt drive or, for the whimps, an electric motor.

Those bought up on modern machinery haven't lived!

Barry
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 11:59 am   #57
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I have a Britannia lathe that was designed for Admiralty use (and was originally on a Cruiser) that "under treadle power alone <can> remove 1/2" off a 2" or 3" bar in one pass."

Not with my muscles it cant!

However, and to return to the subject, most of the Chinese machines that are available today are far better than their offerings of a few years ago and are more than adequate for most hobby use.
I know of people who have built award-winning models with them.

What is worth remembering is that a lathe needs tooling and usually, accessories, to use it to its fill potential.
They can easily cost as much again as the basic price of the lathe.
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 2:52 pm   #58
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Crikey - they must have had the whole ship's company on that treadle!

I think towards the end Myford, Paramo and Record all had their castings produced in China and machined in the UK. I wondered if they 'weathered' them on the long sea voyage home?

One the trickiest aspects of using a lathe is having properly ground and honed tools - I'm still learning! - so no wonder modern lathes come with disposable tipped tools!

Barry
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 3:21 pm   #59
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I didn't know Myford had come to the end.
They were still in Beeston the last time I called in.
Alan
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Old 11th Jan 2011, 4:15 pm   #60
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Myford is still alive but Paramo isn't and Record was bought out by tool distributor, 'Faithful', many years ago. The trouble is there have been so many MBOs, and now 'badge engineering' on imported goods, that it is difficult to know who is still in continuous business making complete units in the UK!

Even I have to get French oak now as Sussex oak is getting difficult to find in the sizes I need!, but I still always try to 'Buy British' and support British craftsmen - even if they buy Chinese!

Barry
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