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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 6th Feb 2018, 7:43 pm   #1
TimeTape
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Default Marconiphone 4247 renovation

I've just acquired this machine in the hope of playing family recordings made on an identical model years ago. It has power and seems in many ways to be in good nick, in spite of a badly shattered casing. On opening it up though I found the drive belts had melted/disintegrated. The fragments that remain are like tar - pics attached. I'm therefore on the lookout for a new set of belts - first stop my dad's old model when I see it next weekend, thought it's a long shot.

Looks like I'll need to do quite a clean-up job to remove the sticky residue from the old belts. Has anyone experienced this sort of thing before, and/or does anyone have tips for cleaning, restoring and accessing suitable belts? I'll be grateful for all tips.

With thanks

Michael
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 9:29 pm   #2
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

That looks like a Philips machine but badged Marconiphone.

Belts turning to goo is very common especially in Philips Machines. Its horrible stuff, I use a powerful degreaser called Flux off available from RS Components. You should wear clothes that you dont mind throwing away, do not do the job on carpet, near carpet or a table cloth that you want to keep because if you get that goo on anything, you wont get it off!

You will probably find that the clutches which are inside the reel tables have also failed in the same way.

There is service information on this site.

http://www.service-data.com/section.php/4577/1/4247

This hopefully will be of help to you
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 11:19 pm   #3
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Thanks very much Michael, that's very helpful.

I think (?) the Marconiphone 4247 shares the same body as the Ferguson 3247, but wasn't aware of a Philips crossover. Sort of good to know the 'goo' is a known thing. It has got onto a fixed dusting brush (shown in one of the photos) past which the tape runs, so I'll probably need to cut away the affected parts. I'll look into Flux Off.

I wasn't aware of clutches inside the reel tables - do they have belts as well?

Michael
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 3:02 am   #4
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

The deck mechanics is a BRC (British Radio Corporation) DF422, four track two speed.

Reason it looks like a re-badged Philips deck is the designer of the Philips decks changed companies and based his BRC decks on his Philips designs.

The deck requires four belts, original BRC part numbers;
  • Main drive belt - 08C8-128
  • Take up belt - 08C8-111
  • Capstan belt - 08C9-159
  • Counter belt - 08C8-112
Ensure that the main drive belt is threaded through the debris brush on the deck.

There are no clutches under the reel tables, they are felt friction rings glued to the underside of the reel tables.

Below them are the friction discs, on the supply side it is an non-revolving disc, it has a protruding peg on it's underside.

The take-up friction disc is grooved, the take-up belt goes around this and the top groove in the motor pulley.

Last edited by AC/HL; 7th Feb 2018 at 3:05 pm. Reason: Forum rule B8
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:19 am   #5
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiberon View Post
Reason it looks like a re-badged Philips deck is the designer of the Philips decks changed companies and based his BRC decks on his Philips designs.
I must say I find this type of back story very interesting!

Pity though that the designer also brought the chemical formula for the belts with him.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 7:15 pm   #6
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Having restored a couple of Philips machines with similar issues, I termed the remains of the belts 'Evil Goo'.. It's horrible!

Firstly you need to take everything apart that will sensibly come apart. Don't remove the heads, etc unless you have to (you don't want to be realigning them) but you need to remove or dismantle the spool turntables, capstan/flywheel, tape counter, anything that has had the belts near it.

On metal parts I found acetone (Poundland or 'beauty supply companies sell this as nail varnish remover, but watch out there are some modern nail varnish removers that are not acetone) was quite effective. But that will attack many plastics, so you may be forced to use propan-2-ol there. You have to rub and scrape to get the stuff off, clean the grooves in the pulleys with cotton buds.

And yes it will get all over your hands and clothes. There is no way of preventing that. You just have to put up with clothes with black streaks on them.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 7:49 pm   #7
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Having done dozens of these 'goo cases', I would add that you must get all the crud out of the pulley grooves. If any is left over, the new belt will get sticky, spread the goo around the transport surfaces, and impair performance.

Q tips are not enough, you need to get right in there. Get a pack of wooden toothpicks and keep dragging them through the ridges until no more black tar remains. I usually finish by dragging the edge of a piece of paper through the groove, can't get much thinner/finer than that!

If the player has been stored on its side, the goo may have gone on places where you would not suspect, as the belt wouldn't normally pass by such areas. I once found a lump of tar on the underside of a pulley, nowhere near where the belt actually passed, yet may have dropped down at a later stage and caused havoc. A good visual inspection is essential.
HTH,
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 11:03 pm   #8
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
....And yes it will get all over your hands and clothes. There is no way of preventing that. You just have to put up with clothes with black streaks on them.
Hi, I find that CIF kitchen cleaner is ideal for cleaning "evil goo" from machines where the belts have disintegrated. You also need a good supply of disposable gloves and decent protection for your clothing and any other fabrics that the goo may come within thirty paces of.

I also found the back story about the Philips designer moving to BRC interesting; I have also seen rubber parts turn to goo in some Sharp cassette machines...

Regards

Andrew
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Old 9th Feb 2018, 11:17 pm   #9
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Quote:
I have also seen rubber parts turn to goo in some Sharp cassette machines...
And TEAC machines.
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Old 12th Feb 2018, 11:31 am   #10
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

The goo was by no means unique to Philips, though their kit always seemed to have to have the stickiest, worst type!
I've had gooey belts in Pioneer, Sony audio gear too, and some VHS decks.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 3:23 pm   #11
TimeTape
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Thanks very much to everyone who responded to my original message. Your advice and information is greatly appreciated. I fear neither I nor the tape deck might be up to the job of renovation, mainly because although the deck looks in good nick on the surface, it has obviously been dropped from a great height at some point in its life, and the casing is cracked through, with the hard plastic screw shafts having shattered etc. In essence it is falling apart.

Meanwhile I've now got my dad's original (identical model) deck, but it has problems of its own. The right hand spool spins round freely when power is turned on, and once a tape is spooled continues to do so. (At this point the Play, FF and RW switches won't engage permanently, i.e. they don't click down but spring back. Yet when no tape is present, they click down and remain.) Play causes the heads to engage and the tape moves slowly, but not I fear at any accurate or useful speed. I haven't yet opened the deck up but it seems the belts on this one are either stretched or absent. Not a lot of point me replacing them on this machine if the switches won't engage/stay pressed down...
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 7:53 am   #12
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Default Re: Marconiphone 4247 renovation

Switches that fail to latch could simply be the symptom of hardened grease in the pushbutton mechanism. Might not be too hard to sort out, often you can just place a drop of oil in the right position to free and simultaneously lubricate the mechanism, which will at least get you going so far that you can see if the rest of the machine is salvageable. To do the job properly you need to strip it down, clean off the old grease, re-lubricate it and put it back together which can be a pit finicky with all the small springs and other parts that tend to go into a pushbutton mechanism.
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