Commodore 3022 Printer

[SiriusHardware]

Unfortunately the forum engine crammed your image so even when saved and magnified it's hard to see what is what because the item you have in your hand is only a small part of an image which has been reduced to 600 pixels high.

Do I see what appear to be 'boxes' that the brushes go into and are pushed out of by springs? There are any number of people selling rectangular carbon brush blocks with either springs or plain wires coming out of one end. Just not sure if either of those is what you need.

I'll PM you a link to one such supplier but I have no idea whether what they sell is the type / format you need.

[ScottishColin]

Ah - here's a close-up ZIPped.

Colin.

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

Unfortunately the forum engine crammed your image so even when saved and magnified it's hard to see what is what because the item you have in your hand is only a small part of an image which has been reduced to 600 pixels high.

Do I see what appear to be 'boxes' that the brushes go into and are pushed out of by springs? There are any number of people selling rectangular carbon brush blocks with either springs or plain wires coming out of one end. Just not sure if either of those is what you need.

I'll PM you a link to one such supplier but I have no idea whether what they sell is the type / format you need.

[Mark1960]

Looks similar to this one, you might be able to exchange the brush assembly, probably easier than trying to fit the gear.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/266154878232?

[ScottishColin]

Thanks Mark. It's smaller in diameter than the one I have here but I like the idea of pulling the brushes from it.

Ta.

Colin.

Originally Posted by Mark1960

Looks similar to this one, you might be able to exchange the brush assembly, probably easier than trying to fit the gear.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/266154878232?

[Mark1960]

You probably need to find the same size motor to be able to swap the bushes over. Unlikely epson make the motors themselves, so just need to find the same model of motor for a different application.

[ortek_service]

It's possible that (Seiko)-Epson did actually make motors back then - or at least sell Epson-branded ones as a quick Google for SM-E005 does seem to find many described as Epson ones. And it seems it was commonly-used in Industrial applications, but not sure if it is still being made.
If it is the paper-feed motor, then I would expect that Epson printers moved onto using stepper motors, for more precise positioning, in later dot-matrix printers

Many of the search results were for listings on the 'bay - usually in the USA with high-prices / having to buy (even-used?) ones in packs of several , plus high shipping costs. However, I did find this UK supplier, who sells both new (old stock?) and aslso used but guaranteed ones: https://www.radwell.co.uk/Buy/EPSON/...?redirect=true
- But I think those are described as 2-wire, whereas most ones I've seen appear to have a couple of extra wires going into the rear to the 'Tacho' sensor. This might have been be an extra 'option', that can be swapped-over between motors (Although I'd have thought there would be a suffix on the model number to indicate this).


I have also found this Japanese (but Google offered to translate text) disassembly & internal photos of a SM-E005 motor
- Where it seems that had a problem with the 'Magnetostriction' sensor connections failing.: https://ameblo.jp/shinkansen-to-kyou...314869008.html
- Where pictures do show 'Epson' text moulded into the plastic, so would further indicate this was custom to them, and not something already available 'off-the'shelf' from other manufacturers (like Matsushita aka Panasonic, Sanko and many other Japanese companies who made many motors used in consumer electronics)


That's probably about the limit to fixing these motors, as unlike many domestic appliance ones / older brush-type R/C-Model ones they aren't usually designed to have the brushes easily changed (or the armature-rotor etc, that you could in mains-power drills etc. years ago). So would have to improvise with brushes from something quite-similar and hope the armature-rotor is still OK.

It is surprising that the brushes have failed in that way in this motor, as I wouldn't have expected it to have had that hard a life in these - Especially if there are other (circuitry) faults as well.
But it seems Colin's Commodore acquisitions have had a rather unusually-high number of (not always too-related) component failures! (I thought recently finding 3 IC's that had failed in my Einstein was unlucky, but it probably didn't have quite as many as there are in the PET).

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

I also thought that no matter what else happened the 555 timer should limit the length of a head 'strike' to a hardware limited amount of time, but maybe the 555 is being continually triggered by whatever the fault condition is.

I guess we should wait and see if Colin can find a physical reason (bad connection etc) for the unit only doing a head seek every one startup in a while.

Yes, It seems I missed out a 'Not' as I'd meant to say It should Not Normally be Possible - Although I had intentionally qualify it with 'Normally' as if the 555 circuitry was at fault, with output stuck-on, then that could result in a continuous drive (It might have been a good idea to have had some detection of that, and shutdown of power to the head solenoids. But you could always have an individual logic-gate or transistor that fails and causes the output to be permanently-on).

Hopefully the head has survived better than the strange disintegration of the brushes in one of the motors. Although that shouldn't be related to the reset -issue (Although harder to tell when it is running OK, without the motor turning).

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by Mark1960

Cricklewood have the 6532 listed. Not as cheap as you’ll find from china, but probably more reliable, less likely to be something relabelled.

Yes, whilst Cricklewood hadn't popped-up in a quick Google, they do have these at not too bad a price - Surprising, that they have these when these mainly seemed to be only-used in early Commodore Peripherals / Atari's / some Arcade machines, rather than many other 650x Computers. But maybe fitting, being as Cricklewood provided many of the IC's Colin needed to fix his original PET.

Although, hopefully they are both actually OK, and problems are due to (Intermittent etc.) faults elsewhere
- However it's unfortunately now looking-like one of these faults at least is a rather-more permanent failure of a more-expensive / harder to obtain unusual part.

[SiriusHardware]

In the past, Cricklewood have been one of Colin's Go-To suppliers for things which happen to be used in old Commodore gear, like the MC3446 IEEE488 buffers for example. I'm not surprised to hear that they also stock the 6532.

Obviously the electromechanical aspect of the unit is the focus just now but we may find when we get back to the electronics that they are a bit more lively than they were to begin with because at last report the RESET line was 'up' even with all ICs fitted in their original positions, so it seems as though just taking them out of their sockets and putting them back in has changed something.

I pointed out a supplier of various sizes of carbon brushes with wires embedded in them but Colin looked at them and said they were all too large, probably they were mainly meant for mains motors - but I do wonder if as a matter of last resort you could put a large rectangular wire ended brush into a vice and gradually file it down to the right dimensions to fit in the sleeve vacated by the faulty brush. It would take a better and more patient craftsman than myself, but it might be possible.

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

>>
>>
I pointed out a supplier of various sizes of carbon brushes with wires embedded in them but Colin looked at them and said they were all too large, probably they were mainly meant for mains motors - but I do wonder if as a matter of last resort you could put a large rectangular wire ended brush into a vice and gradually file it down to the right dimensions to fit in the sleeve vacated by the faulty brush. It would take a better and more patient craftsman than myself, but it might be possible.

Well I suppose you could always saw them down at bit first - possibly with a 'dremel' etc rotary tool cutting disc, then use a fine file / wet & dry paper etc. It's a bit of a pain that they have to be wire-ended, as then have to make sure the wires are a similar size - With higher-power mains motors in domestic appliances probably usually having much larger ones. And maybe the internal disassembly photos of a SM-E005 motor, I'd found here would be helpful in how they should look https://ameblo.jp/shinkansen-to-kyou...314869008.html


But it may just be easier to get another motor, if the ones I found at this UK supplier, who sells both new (old stock?) and also used but guaranteed ones are the right version: https://www.radwell.co.uk/Buy/EPSON/...?redirect=true
- Or if this (same part-number) version is actually missing the 'Tacho' sensor, then it might be swapped-over from the printer one.

[TonyDuell]

I can see if I have a spare working motor in stock.

I've not missed the request to check the resistance of the printhead coils (oddly, not specified in the Epson manual), I'm just very busy at the moment.

[SiriusHardware]

if the ones I found at this UK supplier, who sells both new (old stock?) and also used but guaranteed ones are the right version:

The 'new' ones available from Radwell appear to be 'call to enquire' which suggests to me that they don't actually have them to hand. The one used tested one, quite reasonably priced, seems to be in the USA which will no doubt add a lot of postage.

It does really need to be an exact replacement because the motor control / feedback / speed control circuit is set up for this exact motor model. Fixing the original motor would also fulfil this requirement, obviously. It's not clear whether the 'generator' shown ganged with the motor is actually built into it, if it was it would have at least four wires going into it and not just two. The genny may be a completely separate item also resembling a motor, which is driven by another gear somewhere along the main drive chain.

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

The 'new' ones available from Radwell appear to be 'call to enquire' which suggests to me that they don't actually have them to hand. The one used tested one, quite reasonably priced, seems to be in the USA which will no doubt add a lot of postage.

Well they do say:

"BROKERAGE / NON AUTHORIZED New product with Radwell's 2-year warranty
Available to Order Radwell Independent Supply Chain New Level 1
£24.33 SKU: 79666157 1-4 Weeks"

With an option to add to basket (It only seems you need to call their sales to order 'more' / higher quantity).

So although they do supply these, it seems they don't actually stock it, and are acting as a 'Broker'. And maybe there are some extra delivery fees that could be quite-high.

- Plus might be the same for the used ones they also offer, but it might work out cheaper than going direct to some of the USA sellers on the 'bay.

[SiriusHardware]

Just been looking through that excellent 3110 mechanism manual Colin posted a link to in #13 to see if by any chance the motor brushes were listed in the parts list. Unfortunately if they were I did not find them, but I did notice that the motor is always depicted as having four wires, of which two must be +/- to the motor and the remaining two the output from the tacho generator - it does look as though the generator is integrated into the motor.

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

>>
the motor is always depicted as having four wires, of which two must be +/- to the motor and the remaining two the output from the tacho generator - it does look as though the generator is integrated into the motor.

Yes, you can see the 'Magnetstriction' sensor (that had to have the solder-joints re-done) on the internal photos / disassembly of one of these, here:
https://ameblo.jp/shinkansen-to-kyou...314869008.html

[ScottishColin]

This site is on my list if I can't make any other progress; they do seem to be a broker and all their current devices seem to be in the States but it's a not-unreasonable £7 for shipping.

Colin.

Originally Posted by ortek_service

Well they do say:

"BROKERAGE / NON AUTHORIZED New product with Radwell's 2-year warranty
Available to Order Radwell Independent Supply Chain New Level 1
£24.33 SKU: 79666157 1-4 Weeks"

With an option to add to basket (It only seems you need to call their sales to order 'more' / higher quantity).

So although they do supply these, it seems they don't actually stock it, and are acting as a 'Broker'. And maybe there are some extra delivery fees that could be quite-high.

- Plus might be the same for the used ones they also offer, but it might work out cheaper than going direct to some of the USA sellers on the 'bay.

[SiriusHardware]

The ones pictured on the Radwell site appear only to have two wires though, hopefully it would not be difficult to transplant the tacho sender unit onto the new motor as long as everything else is the same.

[SiriusHardware]

Still looking around, I have found the unlikely sounding:-

https://carbonbrushes.uk

Scroll down that page to find an area where you can search for brushes by dimensions, they go down to quite small, to ones intended for use in Philips shavers etc.

[ScottishColin]

Their small brushes are really small....

I've done as you suggested and ordered some with the intention of filing them down (patiently).

Colin.

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

Still looking around, I have found the unlikely sounding:-

https://carbonbrushes.uk

Scroll down that page to find an area where you can search for brushes by dimensions, they go down to quite small, to ones intended for use in Philips shavers etc.

[TonyDuell]

Originally Posted by TonyDuell

I can see if I have a spare working motor in stock.

I've not missed the request to check the resistance of the printhead coils (oddly, not specified in the Epson manual), I'm just very busy at the moment.

I've not found a motor yet

I have dug out the 'spare' printhead. It is the one with the broken bottom pin that I took out of my 2023. However the solenoids are all good, so it could be used with the 'nose' of your old printhead. The mechanism service manual shows how to do that, just don't take the plastic retainer off the back of the 'nose' section!.

I've measured the resistance of the printhead solenoid coils. The common connection is, not surprisingly, the wide contact at the left end of the flexiprint. I used my normal (cheap)DMMfor this, but did correct for the resistance of the leads. I do have a reasonable 4-terminal ohmmeter which I can use if you need more accurate readings.

Each coil measures about 4.2 ohms from its tab on the end of the flexiprint to common.

So that will let you check if your head is open or shorted. If you get the motor running and find you have damaged the head we can come to some agreement about getting the spare to you.