A lasting bakelite shine

[Ian - G4JQT]

Yes, it's been discussed before, but products come and go.

Bake-o-Brite is an obvious favourite, but the shine fades. As does my usual finish with boot polish, after a few weeks.

A friend claims something called car nano wax is the thing now. Anyone used it? A bit pricy compared to Mr Sheen and/or boot polish and/or Bake-o-Brite - but if it gives a lasting shine...

Thanks.

[Lloyd 1985]

Sounds interesting, might have to look for some! I’ve taken to using Briwax furniture wax, it looks good when used sparingly, the shine lasts a fair while, but dust does tend to stick to it eventually. If it does get a bit dull you can get away with just buffing it again. Obviously you need to give rough Bakelite a good going over with no.5 before waxing it.

Regards
Lloyd

[PaulR]

I keep thinking I will try Danish oil on a dull telephone handpiece I have but never get round to it. I did use it on a very dull faded "slate" clock then polished with Brasso and the result was very good.

[Dickie]

I'm just preparing to start polishing a bakelite case and have been reviewing some Utube videos. One of the contributors also finishes off with a coat of Briwax.

Over the years I have concluded that there is no substitute for a lot of work and a tube of paste polishing no.5. This Utube chap starts by rubbing the cabinet down with 1200 grit abrasive paper lubricated with linseed oil. This sounds a bit violent and risky to me. Any thoughts?

[PaulR]

As I understand it the original shine is because of a layer of resin on the surface of the Bakelite. As this wears/degrades it exposes the sub material which contains fillers to a greater or lesser extent. If there is a lot of filler the surface becomes rough as is seen on many old telephones. It appears that some Bakelite has little filler, like many radio cabinets, and it is easy to polish up but telephones usually have a lot and polishing with abrasive will smooth the surface and improve it but you will never get the original shine back.

The use of linseed oil as a lubricant may be because the filler is often sawdust and getting it wet will tend to swell it causing the surface to get rougher. It may also act as a sealant on the surface. On a radio cabinet I would be tempted to try a liquid polish before resorting to attacking it with abrasive paper.

[Lloyd 1985]

I have rubbed down cabinets with fine wet or dry before, but normally only when I’ve repaired some damage, one such cabinet was a green Ekco U29, which actually just looked a dull muddy brown colour to begin with, the radio fell off the bench and broke the side into 3 pieces, and that’s when you could see on the broken edges it was a deep almost lime green colour, so I glued the bits back together, and sanded the side to flatten the glue, and in doing so it began to uncover the lighter green colour, so I ended up doing the whole thing! It took a hell of a lot of polishing to get it shiny again though, it’s a lot of hard work.

Also there is stories of asbestos being used in some bakelites as a filler, so maybe sanding should be a final option when all others fail, although using some linseed oil will hopefully keep any dust to a minimum, it’s still best done outside with a well fitted mask on.

I also sanded an Ekco A22 cabinet in black, it had been very poorly stored, possibly submerged too! The surface is all pimpled, and it was very dull, with a sort of light speckling to it, it was never going to be perfect, but after filling a deep scratch on the top with superglue, I sanded that area just to level the glue off, and then polished with no.5, and in doing so it removed the light speckling and got it back to a deep black. I still need to fill a big hole in the side of that cabinet!

Regards,
Lloyd

[The Philpott]

This is a good point at which to mention that my application of baby oil to enhance a degraded avominor meter facia has now started to look slightly dull again..but it did last 5 years. I seem to recall that i was suffering contact dermatitis at the time and used this as an alternative to, say, 3 in 1, just to see if it would work.

Dave

[stevehertz]

People refer to a layer of resin on the surface of the bakelite. Is there any evidence for this? Surely the liquid bakelite, as one homogeneous substance, is introduced into the mould and allowed to set. If one were to analyse a cross section of the set bakelite, why then would the outer surface be any different to the inner layer? Unless there's some kind of splitting or migration of the constituent parts of the bakelite during the curing process then I don't believe in the existence of a surface layer that is any different to the underlying bakelite. Otherwise I'd love to hear the science behind it.

[Lloyd 1985]

I’d also like to hear how this works, as when I’ve been messing about with repairing and polishing it I have begun to question the surface layer’s existence… Unless it’s the way it sets in the mould with the heat, maybe the liquid resin ends up on the hot surface, while the filler ends up going away from it somehow, but you’d hope that any filler materials would be evenly spread through the mixture, rather than turning into a layer cake! Do we know anyone who has worked with Bakelite manufacture?

Regards
Lloyd

[Dickie]

So it all comes down to is it a homogeneous material or not? If so then it should be possible to start off with a coarse abrasive to get rid of all the surface imperfections and then to progress through finer grits until you reach the desired finish in the conventional manner. It would be interesting to try it, but I don't have a suitable scrap cabinet around at the moment.
I've had several cabinets that have suffered from sun-bleaching that I've been unable to recover, but maybe I wasn't aggressive enough.

[JonSnell]

I finish polishing with 0000 wire wool.
Mainly used on wood instruments for a wonderful sheen but on plastics is second to none.
Start off with something around the Brillo Pad grade but clean and work until the finer grade is required finishing off with 0000 grade. Flour paper can add more of a shine before a final coat of varnish/oil etc.
Be careful, as wire wool is highly flammable when finer than 00 grade and burns fiercely.

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by JonSnell

.... before a final coat of varnish/oil etc.

Each to their own but I'd never varnish Bakelite, it's meant to be polished to obtain its shine. Ok, that may mean it will need re-polishing every now and then, but that's just the way it is just like anything that requires to be polished regularly.

[chriswood1900]

Seeing this thread and the points raised reminded me of the US film made by the Bakelite Corporation of New Jersey in 1936. A very American publicity film it does show parts of the manufacturing process and how it is done and particularly how some Radio oriented products were produced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umM21vFIc7Y
Its a pity that as far as I know there was never a film of the UK manufacure by the likes of EKCO.

[G6Tanuki]

On the nature of Bakelite; I wonder if there was some sort of release-agent applied to the moulds before the Bakelite mix/filler was introduced?

Glass-reinforced-plastic production in times-past would use a 'gelcoat' applied to the inside of the mould before laying-up the mat and resin that provided the structure to the finished product. Same was the case with the old Ebonite: there was some sort of film [which was sometimes conductive!] applied to the face during its production in order to make it shiny.

[Helder Crespo]

I've had very good and (so far) lasting results with the method given by Panrock in his Radiocraft website (Bush TV22 restoration and also other restoration pages): Polishing Paste No. 5 followed by beeswax (both used sparingly). The paste followed by hand buffing already leaves the bakelite with a very nice shine that to me looks "natural" and is not too glassy, and so I believe the second step with the beeswax is mostly to ensure the surface is protected from oxidation (which dulls bakelite) rather than to provide additional shine. This method works well with cabinets initially in good condition (intact, without major cracks or repairs, and with minor scratches) but I've also repaired a bakelite knob that was very heavily scratched by sanding it down with 1000 grit paper followed by PP5 + beeswax. I then restored the lettering with gold lacquer-stik and it looks very good - I'm attaching before and after photos.
I did my first cabinet (Bush TV22) only around 3 years ago but it's still looking nice and shiny; I don't see the need to apply any more beeswax yet.

[Helder Crespo]

Just a quick note regarding my post above: to the best of my knowledge, Polishing Paste No. 5 is the same as Bake-o-Brite. However, the beeswax does seem to prevent the shine fading after a few weeks (the problem mentioned in the first post).

[Panrock]

Thanks for the kind words, Helder.

Since my TV22 article was written - many years ago - technique has advanced, particularly with respect to driving out moisture from the LOPT and how best to remove the wax. It really should be re-written.

Steve

[Helder Crespo]

First photo shows my TV22 mentioned above, 1 year after the PP5+beeswax treatment (photo taken under sunset light). The second photo is the same set 2 years after the treatment. It's had many on-off cycles, as I use it practically every day, but the shine is still there.

[Smithdoor]

Manufacturers would paint the Baklite then wax
You see this on old used steering wheels a lot.

Dave

Originally Posted by Ian - G4JQT

Yes, it's been discussed before, but products come and go.

Bake-o-Brite is an obvious favourite, but the shine fades. As does my usual finish with boot polish, after a few weeks.

A friend claims something called car nano wax is the thing now. Anyone used it? A bit pricy compared to Mr Sheen and/or boot polish and/or Bake-o-Brite - but if it gives a lasting shine...

Thanks.

[McMurdo]

I had a very weather beaten damp-stored DAC90A which would not respond to buffing with any sort of cutting compound, always leaving something resembling eggshell. In desperation, looking in my kit of finishing stuff, I found some boiled linseed oil, which I rubbed in sparingly. This allowed me to get a great shine once it had dried, I was sceptical but 3 or 4 years later and it's still gleaming on the top shelf of a dirty workshop without any further attention. No it's not sticky and does not smell !