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Old 19th May 2018, 3:26 pm   #1
M0FYA Andy
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Default American Pronunciation

Silly question time! I was watching a video showing US TV assembly in the 50's on YouTube, and I was reminded of a question I've been meaning to ask before.
Why do Americans refer to 'soldering' as 'soddering', and the stuff they do it with as 'sodder'?

There must be a good reason, but I'm puzzled.......

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Old 19th May 2018, 3:36 pm   #2
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

...and why is a buoy a 'booey'? At first i thought it was a California thing, but it's all of the country.
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Old 19th May 2018, 3:39 pm   #3
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

And you can't sodder aloominum.
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Old 19th May 2018, 3:45 pm   #4
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

There is an intriguing theory that the British people who colonised parts of America in the 16th and 17th centuries took with them English as it was spoken then and that in fact it hasn't changed there. It has, however, evolved here into the English that we, but not the Americans, speak today. So in a sense they are speaking original English and we are the ones speaking the modified version.

The dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/solder says that the derivation of the word solder is from the Old French soudure which, clearly, doesn't have an l in it. So maybe we were all saying 'sodder' hundreds of years ago ? However the even earlier Roman word, on which the Old French is based, was solidare which, just as clearly, does have the l.

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Old 19th May 2018, 3:56 pm   #5
G8HQP Dave
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

One of the peculiarities (to our ears) of American pronunciation is that they usually pronounce all the syllables of a word, whereas we often skip or shorten or modify some. I live on the edge of a city, which Americans call Birm-Ing-Ham but most English call Birm-Ing-Um and Brummies saying something like Birm-Ing-Gum.
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Old 19th May 2018, 3:57 pm   #6
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

There is a lot of truth in what GJ says, but American pronunciation was also greatly influenced by Irish immigrants from the 1840s onwards.

Aluminium and aluminum are actually different words, not just the same word pronounced differently. Wikipedia has info about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Etymology
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:02 pm   #7
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJosef View Post
The dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/solder says that the derivation of the word solder is from the Old French soudure which, clearly, doesn't have an l in it. So maybe we were all saying 'sodder' hundreds of years ago ? However the even earlier Roman word, on which the Old French is based, was solidare which, just as clearly, does have the l.
I'm not sure I agree with the dictionary as besides French influences, Roman influences were seen in the UK as well. Possibly both the French and English words were derived from Latin.
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:04 pm   #8
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
One of the peculiarities (to our ears) of American pronunciation is that they usually pronounce all the syllables of a word, whereas we often skip or shorten or modify some. I live on the edge of a city, which Americans call Birm-Ing-Ham but most English call Birm-Ing-Um and Brummies saying something like Birm-Ing-Gum.
A notable exception is the word comftble. How do Brits pronounce that?
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:07 pm   #9
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

The American dialect has developed from a mixture of the west coasts of England and Scotland with a big contribution from Ireland.
It has developed for 200 years to form the dialect we hear today.
The same goes for Australia.
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:16 pm   #10
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

American English is peppered with little differences, and I can fully understand the reason for "sodder" rather than "solder". I am a member of the Blowlamp Society (yes, there are organisations for people even more nerdy than BVWS members!) and the French were among the first to develop 'lampes a soudre'.

However, some Americanisms such as "levver" tend to grate on the native English speaker's ear, especially those of us old enough to remember the rules drilled into us during primary school pronunciation lessons. We once heard an American guide describing a buoy as a "boo-oh-ee" and we chuckled, although that's how you'd say it if you were unaware of diphthongs or in a language that doesn't have them, like Welsh.

My pet hate is the mis-pronunciation of the word "the". We all know it has two forms, "thuh" when followed by a word beginning with a consonant, and "thee" when followed by a word beginning with a vowel, as in "thuh radio" and "thee aerial". So why do so many Americans now insist on using "thuh" in every case? "Thuh aerial" sounds such a childish or uneducated error, as bad as saying "a apple". Sadly, this affectation is being adopted by many Brits, including some prominent BBC presenters who should know better (or at least be told off by the Pronunciation Unit).

Today's pronunciation test: "Curmudgeonly". Sums me up rather well!
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:18 pm   #11
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
One of the peculiarities (to our ears) of American pronunciation is that they usually pronounce all the syllables of a word, whereas we often skip or shorten or modify some. I live on the edge of a city, which Americans call Birm-Ing-Ham but most English call Birm-Ing-Um and Brummies saying something like Birm-Ing-Gum.
A notable exception is the word comftble. How do Brits pronounce that?
It varies by region, but COME-fort-ubble is Received Pronunciation (maybe CAM-fort-abble if you're the Queen).

There is little or no consistency in English pronunciation across different words, even within particular dialects.
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:29 pm   #12
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Since Maarten may not be a native English speaker you might have to explain how to pronounce COME (i.e. not like dome or home or Rome or tome, but like some) .

I was once asked how I would pronounce the (imaginary) word ghoti. Taking the gh from laugh, the o from women and the ti from nation you get 'fish'.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:30 pm   #13
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Remember that North America was called New France because it was French territory before the British. There is a strong French influence in language in parts of Canada and the U.S. south (Cajun).

I've always known it as "sodder" phonetically but spelled solder.

We couldn't understand how you got "wurster" from Worcestershire.

Bruce M0SOE
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:33 pm   #14
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

I found a cure for it which works.

Occasionally I'd have an American pick me up on British pronunciation's little illogicalities.
So I'd ask him if he came from Ar-Kan-Sas. The answer would usually be no and I'd be told that it was pronounced Ar-Kan-Saw anyway.

So I'd then ask if he came from Kan-Saw, then.

They never did it again!

David
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:33 pm   #15
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

I am assuming Maarten is an advanced English speaker - he's got some impressive machine translation software if he isn't
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:40 pm   #16
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0SOE_Bruce View Post
We couldn't understand how you got "wurster" from Worcestershire
We don't. We pronounce 'Worcester' like that. (Now why am I thinking of Will Hay in 'The Goose Steps Out')

English place names can cause a lot of problems like that. There's a place near Norwich called Wymondham. It's pronounced 'Windum'

Another aside is the way to distinguish engineers/scientists from management types. Pronounce 'unionised'. To a scientist it's un-ion-ised (not composed of charged atoms). To a manager it's union-ised (involves a Trades Union).

Another related one that I have used is 'thou' (the two meanings, an old version of 'you' and a coloquial term for a thousandth of an inch are pronounced differently)
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Old 19th May 2018, 4:46 pm   #17
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

Let's face it. English has probably always been peppered with inconsistencies, not least as a result of the many influences upon its development both before and after its migration west of the Atlantic, and it has continued to change on both sides.
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Old 19th May 2018, 5:12 pm   #18
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

English is constantly changing..... Inflammble.... Flammable it can even go as far as a complete reversal of meaning in areas that make it very dangerous. What causes the fun is that the changes don't happen the same in countries nominally speaking the same language.

I've had the pleasure of working with some really good Americans and we took the mickey out of each other quite thoroughly and remained friends. We all had good fun.

One thing I did learn (to my embarrassment) was that the simplified sort of spelling they engage in was championed and sponsored (to the tune of many bucks) by Andrew Carnegie, a Scot born about a mile from where I'm sitting...

David
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Old 19th May 2018, 5:43 pm   #19
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

The classics eg aluminium/aloom minum are fine, it's just a cultural difference but it's frequently hearing "the end of an error" [Era.. an error in itself] that I find a real problem. Much more grating and confusing. It probaly results from the tendency towards using a speeded up pronounciation that has already been mentioned.

The American Pastor at a televised wedding today used the word "******" [apparently these are automaticaly generated italics but you can work it out] in his call for universal love!!! I think he was just trying to identify with British speech and moraies but didn't quite manage that in his enthusiasm-all thirteen minutes of it

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Old 19th May 2018, 5:53 pm   #20
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Default Re: American Pronounciation

...Anyone remember the war comedy where German spies were being trained for action in the UK?

They were shown Slough on a map and told it was pronounced Slouw, then in a practice conversation:

'What does your brother do?'
'He's a boxer'
'Oh, he must be very touw'
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