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Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment For discussions about vintage test gear and workshop equipment such as coil winders.

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Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:04 pm   #21
David Simpson
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Default Re: Help for beginners

Sharon, best bet is to find a Forum member who lives in Kent, and who is experienced in all aspects of valve testing. Perhaps a deal of a few £££ or a gift of a wee handful of your valves would suffice. As you have no knowledge of vintage valve testing, I would strongly advise against purchasing a valve tester, because, as others have advised, they themselves might be in need of repair &/or calibration. And again, as others have advised, some valves(such as PX25's etc.) can be worth more than say- an AVO 2 Panel Valve Tester or a Taylor. Therefore correct Heater Voltage, Grid Voltage & Anode Current is essential for rare valuable valves.
Not so long ago, I tested a chap's collection of a few hundred valves, which in total were worth several thousand ££. Some nigh-on a hundred years old, some very rare 1920's/30's Power Triodes, and so on. It took me ages, as every one had to be very carefully tested.
There are also one or two un-trustworthy mercenary valve dealers out there,(known to Forum & BVWS folk). I would respectfully suggest you contact "MurphyMad" on the Forum - aka Mike Barker of the BVWS for references should one approach you.

Regards, David
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 1:42 pm   #22
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Default Re: Help for beginners

If you're after making money from your valves but not having the experience in knowing what you have. You might end up spending a huge amount of time on the project with very limited financial returns if the valves are of little value.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 2:18 pm   #23
Collectabug
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Default Re: Help for beginners

Hi everyone who has taken the time to post advice, we really appreciate it.

To answer some questions, yes, we are hoping to make some money. My husband and I have a lifestyle business buying and selling things, all sorts of things, mostly things he is interested in or knows something about (which encompasses a huge variety) so yes, making some money is the aim, however this project can take as long as it takes. We've occasionally bought a few valves in the past, done a little research and basically let the market decide value. However we bought this lot unseen and were staggered at the amount when we picked them up so have decided that it's time that we got a deeper understanding of the subject. Hubby also works as an event technician so is more technically minded than me, however I'm more forum minded than him so it's me posting!

With regard to finding someone locally who would be willing to help us for some kind of renumeration we think it's a great idea, how would we go about this? If anyone is interested then please get in touch.

In response to questions regarding photos and the valves themselves I've taken a selection and identified as many as I can. I've also taken some photos for you of most of the valves on the list, and also a photo of those valves I can't identify. I can take more if neccessary, just ask. As ever, any information or resources we can use are greatly appreciated (we've already made use of those mentioned before so thank you) List follows....

E
EABC80
ECC85
EM80
ECL82
EF91 (X2)
ECF82
EF97 (X2)
EZ80
ECH81
EM84
EL84
EB91 (X4)
EH90
ECC?? (X2)
EF37A
E14
EL34
EF80 (X10)
EZ81
EY86
EF183 (X5)
EF85 (4)
EBF89
EC?82
EF184 (X5)
ECL80 (X3)

P
PC88
PL81A
PCF86
PY82
PC86 (X2)
PCL84
PL504
PV97
PCC84
PCL86
PY800 (X2)
PL36 (X2)
PCF80 (X8)
PY88
PCL82
PCF802
PCF84
PL83
PCF808
PCL83 (X2)

OTHER LETTERS
CRC6SJ7
CV9 (X2)
CV4035 (X2)
CV138
CV4000
CV4014
CV449 (X2)
CV140
VT-93
VR54
U35
UCH81
X78
Z152
DY802
DAF91
DY86
DH77

VALVES BEGINING WITH NUMBERS
6523
6CL6
35Z4
12Q7
12K7
6BW6
1908
150C4
85A2 (X3)
6F23 (X4)
6BW7 (X2)
6BQ5
6AL5 (X4)
6F28
6AM6 (X3)
6BJ6
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 9:49 pm   #24
Bazz4CQJ
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Default Re: Help for beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Simpson View Post
Not so long ago, I tested a chap's collection of a few hundred valves, which in total were worth several thousand ££. Some nigh-on a hundred years old, some very rare 1920's/30's Power Triodes, and so on. It took me ages, as every one had to be very carefully tested. David

This is the crux of the matter. For each different type of valve you have, something of the order of 15 different settings need to be adjusted on the valve tester. If any one setting is wrong, the test won't work, and occasionally, the valve may be destroyed. So the questions which follows are;
  • how many valves can be tested in an hour?
  • if it's been done on a business basis (even a lifestyle business like you have) how much do I want to charge per hour?
  • What does that work out at in £ per valve
Using an AVO VCM tester, and being very gentle with rotating the pin selector switches, and considering the time to find the settings in the data book and then record the results, I'd think you might be looking at 10 valves an hour. I've never tested 10 valves sequentially, so this is a guess.

I suspect that for the majority of the valves you have, the cost of having each one tested would be about the same, or possible more than the value of the valve.

B
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 10:57 pm   #25
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Looking at the list briefly, nothing stands out as being rare, valuable or collectable. Just a heap of run of the mill radio & TV valves. Trouble is - if this is a heap from an ex TV/Radio shop - they could well be "Pulls". I.e. not worth much due to their 2nd hand nature.
As Bazz says, whether one uses an AVO VCM with a complicated thumbwheel switch assembly & setting codes, a Mullard HSVT with separate cards for every valve, or Taylors with their own "Valve Chart" - its not going to be economically viable to test every valve, manhours-wise.
Best bet would be to identify a handful of undamaged valuable valves like ECC83's, KT66's & KT88's, and so on. Then just spend time testing those. As for the rest - just flog them off in dollops of 25 or 50 on eBay or Gumtree, or respectable radio auctions, or whatever - as cheapo "take a chance" 2nd hand valves.
Quite frankly, in past & recent times, I've been given shoeboxes, ice cream tubs, even plastic buckets - - full of valves. Quantity - maybe a couple of thousand. Bolloxed if I've been prepared to spend hundreds of manhours testing every one. A fair few were covered in crud, had damaged pins & were obviously grotty "pulls" - long may they rest in our council's landfill!

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Old 18th Mar 2019, 11:37 pm   #26
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

I see the EF80 has done its usual "go forth and multiply" trick, a well documented observation on this forum.

If the valves are "pulls" they won't be worth a lot at all, unless there's KT prefix or PX prefix or other much sort after types etc in amongst them

Any new old stock (N.O.S.) in original boxes might be worth a bit more.

Unless you find some really desirable ones I wouldn't bother testing them except maybe for the valves heater continuity which you can do yourself very quickly (lots and lots per hour) with a very cheap multimeter, for most of the valves there are only two heater pins and most are universal to the style of valve base the valve has.

Any that have gone milky looking, throw them in the bin as they will have gone to air (lost their vacuum) and will be totally useless.

Good luck whicheverways.

Lawrence.

Last edited by ms660; 18th Mar 2019 at 11:48 pm. Reason: addition
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 7:15 am   #27
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Valves to put on the "might be worth summat" pile, from the first list - EZ80, EL84, EF37A, EL34, EZ81, EC?82 (ECC82) . If these test well and are made by Mullard, they will fetch the most.

Who a valve is made by and how much it is worth as a consequence is a study in para-psychology, rumour, human gullibility and valve construction. Look up things like "long plate" ECC83's, Telefunken ECC83 for a start. In the audiophile world certain valves are thought to imbue the music with different timbre's or attributes, bit like wine, and like wine oppinion's can get heated and folk can get snobby, childish or just plain daft.

Other useful valves that may be worth a few quid in the "E" list are ECL/ECF types and indicator valves like the EM80 are getting rare.

P types bung in box, not worth much, same goes for the rest but havn't had a good look through the CV types.

This brings us to "special valves", any valve with a CV number has been in the hands of the military possibly. It could be a special ruggedised version of another valve and hence worth more. Some E types are marked , E**CC or E***C, EG, E88CC instead of ECC88, this has gold pins and is special quality, hence more moolah. Your E14 may be one of these types.

Lastly any triode is worth more than a pentode, generally speaking, big triodes = big £'s in general. Also what you'll find is out of your massive pile of valves, you'll end up with a very small box of saleable ones, a big box of P types and others and a huge box of EF80's, as Lawrence hinted above.

Good luck, Andy.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 9:17 am   #28
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Hi Collectabug,
Sorry, but there is no gentle way to say this, they are mostly worthless.
They all look 'used' and some very used. (The poor EL34 has no spigot and no gettering...)

Not even sure batching them into lots of 25 or 50 and listing them (as David said) will help. You could end up paying more in time and packing than you get for them. Most that you have (often new boxed ones) fail to sell on ebay or get penny bids... Please do not spend any time testing them!

Apologies again for the bad news, but you are learning what types people want and do make serious money... Better luck next time.
Alan
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:46 am   #29
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

They are mostly miniature all glass valves, not worth much.

The "P" stuff you might as well bin, they are old TV valves and the world is awash with them, or put them in one box on ebay at 99p start and hope.

The rest are nothing exceptional at first sight. EF80s are like sand on a beach.

1000 valves is nothing, my selection of stuff worth keeping is over 20.000.

If you were to make 20p a piece on half of them you will be lucky, it's a hell of lot of work for £100.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:55 am   #30
David Simpson
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Sharon, if you've got some valves - still in their pristine valve boxes, with undamaged wrapping, with un-corroded & un-scratched pins & topcaps, clear glass with perfect lettering - then you have some NOS (New Old Stock) valves. They might be worth several quid, or more, depending on their type & manufacturer. Just like any collectables on "Bargain Hunt" or "Antiques Roadshow"- buyers like original boxes & a bit of provenance.
Looks like, according to advice from several of us, you'll be visiting your local council skip site soon.

Commiserations, David
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 11:43 am   #31
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Hi all

Thank you very much for all the information. There's no bad news as far as we're concerned, this is all knowledge that we don't already have.

As I said previously we have bought and sold valves, some for large amounts of money and others for very little, what we don't know is the reasons why. It seemed to us that knowing more about them was essential if we were going to deal with this large lot. We understand that most are worthless but lack the knowledge to sort the wheat from the chaff and everything that gets posted here helps, so thank you.

We do have some in original boxes but haven't looked at them yet. We plan to have a sift through them all, now we have some idea of what goes in which pile and will definitely come back when this is complete and maybe return to the idea of finding someone to help. If there is anything else that might help us do the sorting then please do let us know, any guidance or rule of thumbs are appreciated.

Kind regards

Sharon
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 12:12 pm   #32
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

I agree with the advice in #27.

Apart from the potentially valuable types mentioned in that post, I think you have 3 options for the rest:

1. Sell them individually on eBay with a 99p start, untested. Some will sell for a few quid, some will get one bidder and sell for 99p, and some won't sell at all. This obviously involves a fair amount of work.

2. Sell them in big lots on eBay, again with a 99p start. They are likely to sell but may only raise peanuts. If you sell them collection only then you won't need to spend time packing them in polystyrene and bubblewrap, but your market will be smaller.

3. Offer them here on the forum FOC, collection only. You won't make any money but will get rid of them and you'll know they're going to someone who will appreciate them.

Of course, you could just dump them in a skip, but that would be a pity.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 1:59 pm   #33
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Also agree with post #27, with the exception the PCL86 may be worth a few quid.

If you sell in 'lots' I'd suggest 20 - and list the types. Someone may bid because they wanted one particularly.

As you've lots, you could put a lot of 20 on ebay for a trial (don't link the sale to here though, it's a Forum rule not to self-promote auctions!) and see what happens.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 7:37 pm   #34
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

I too am in a similar situation, so both empathise and sympathise.

I would suggest a couple of web sites to look at.

jacmusic.com for all about valve testers, fraudulent valves and also a good read.

audiotubes.com who sell an enormous range of valves, tubes, with descriptions but also has a 'we buy' page to depress you that the valve they sell for $100 is worth $10 bought in.

I have found dealers to be a waste of time, no surprise that they want, need, to buy cheap and sell dear.

Another possibility is to actually make something from the valves, typically an audio amplifier. So, it will have all sorts of funny types in it, not ECC83's, but who can really tell the difference? Make it on a nice chassis with the valves all glowing away and list on ebay for £100, probably far more profitable than selling valves, as has been said, for coppers. Experiment with using a small 110V primary toroidal transformer as a push pull output transformer, see if you can hear the difference. Use the modern switching power supplies to get the mix of heater voltages. This will all take work, but it seems to me that making things is the best way to a modest but repeatable income.

Good luck!
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 7:53 pm   #35
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

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Another possibility is to actually make something from the valves, typically an audio amplifier. Make it on a nice chassis with the valves all glowing away and list on ebay for £100. It seems to me that making things is the best way to a modest but repeatable income.
Well, to make a valve amplifier, even just something like a single ECC83, but on a nice chassis, and sell it at £100, could you suggest what your return would be in terms of £'s per hour? Minimum wage rates look doubtful . Are there any legal issues to bear in mind here?

B
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 8:12 pm   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ View Post
... Are there any legal issues to bear in mind here?
Yes. There really, really are. The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016 to start with. Anyone ignoring them wouldn't be the first, but they are the law and in the event of a customer making a claim, justified or not, I certainly wouldn't want to be in a non-compliant manufacturer's shoes ...

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 7:12 am   #37
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Rules - don't wash the lettering with soap and water, they'll come off and loose 75% of the value approx.

Look at an ECC type valve, you'll see it has two little "boxes" inside with a space inbetween, this is a double triode and the boxes are the anodes. Therefore if you come across a umarked valve that looks like this, it is a double triode and hence worth keeping.

Some members are a bit down on your valves as they are not NOS and are used, however a used double triode that still has good emission is worth keeping, especially if it's a Mullard, Telefunken Bugle boy etc..

If you get an unmarked valve you may be able to ID from it's etch code, do a search here or online for more info.

Any valve with a brown stain is knackered, as is a valve that looks white. Careful, those little pips on top of the valve can get knocked off, valve goes to air, goes white = ko'd.

I said triodes are king from a monetary POV, but big pentodes or beam tetrodes, uncommon types other than the EL34, KT66/88, 6L6, 6V6 are worth something too. Valves like the 13E1, PL504 etc, especially horizontal line output/deflection valves. Older 4 pin valves especially audio OP (output) also put on the good pile.

Lastly big rectifier valves are worth putting on the "good" pile, these include 5U4G, GZ34, 5R4, etc, etc. Brimar 5U4G's go for daft money sometimes for instance.

Andy.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 10:39 am   #38
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Thank you Diabolical, this is most helpful. I see a lot of sorting in my future!

Sharon
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 7:44 pm   #39
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

The OP sounded like they didn't have too much cash to throw around, so why all the negative comments?

Oxfordshire must be a lot richer than Lincolnshire is all I can say.

The pounds per hour is irrelevant. When you are staring at the wall wondering where the next £10 to feed yourself will come from then £/hr is, as I say, irrelevant.

I would have thought on a professional forum like this that the legal niceties are a given, I don't have to go through them in all their tedious detail.

A nice chassis, an upside down diecast box, even get to practice your painting. Not so certain that plastic will work, but that is all in the design stage.

The forum seems to have decided that the OP's valves are basically worthless, in any formal business plan sense, so turning them into something in my experience is the only real way to make money from them. If this doesn't match in with the OP's intentions then I apologise for wasting everyone's time and bandwidth.
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Old 20th Mar 2019, 10:13 pm   #40
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Default Re: Valve testing. Help for beginners.

Quote:
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Hi all

As I said previously we have bought and sold valves, some for large amounts of money and others for very little, what we don't know is the reasons why.
Kind regards
Sharon
Aye, the 'why' is a bit of a mystery.

In general, most valves are worth several quid if they're unused, and worth half that if they're used but not badly worn.

Then there are the exceptions. A series of valves really only ever used in tellies are worth little, and a similar series used in AC/DC radios are in the same boat. These usually have P and U prefixes.

The valuable valves are the ones that audiophiles and electric guitarists feel they really have to have. KT66 KT88 EL34 EL84 ECC83 ECC82 EF86 EF37
The audiophiles treat them as some sort of fine wine and spend evenings swapping them around and appreciating their special audible qualities which it seems that ordinary people quite fail to notice. Guitarists think that the same type valves will let them emulate Eric Clapton's tone and more importantly his bank account

THen there are crazily expensive valves PX4 PX25 and certain makes and ages of ECC83. If you're not an audiophile, you can have no idea what the attraction is, It mystifies me. But the money they will pay for these things is quite real. I think it comes from magic fairy dust or something.

You might as well ask why the rhinos are being slaughtered to make folk remedies. Some people have such strong beliefs that they will spend amazing amounts for things we're certain do nothing special.

David
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