Grundig TK14 - Please tell me how.

[Steeplejack]

Hello All,

I am so pleased to have found this forum ! I have tried all my local suppliers, retailers and our one restorer for information but to no avail. I am not well versed in radio or electronics. I offerred to do a favour for an old friend. This involves some very old tapes which he would like me to capture and put on to CDs. During our early discussions I misunderstood and thought he was talking about cassette tapes, otherwise I might not have jumped in so readily ! What he was talking about were reel to reel tapes from a proper tape recorder circa 1962. Last week, by sheer coincidence, whilst visiting family, I found an old Grundig TK 14. I borrowed it and have since removed the top and bottom and done some careful cleaning. Mechanically it works fine. Sound too is very clear so I am still hopeful.

The problem facing me now is that I don’t know how to use the three 5 pin din sockets in conjunction with the speaker on/off switch on the back. From the symbols underneath the sockets I am guessing that:- the left one with the omega under, is for a Mic in conjunction with the ‘Micro’ press button on the front console. Should the speaker slide be used as well? The middle socket with the Pi symbol under is to do with the speaker and possibly direct recording from an external source like a radio ? Again does the speaker on/off have a role to play? I have never seen the symbol under the right hand socket before – two wavy lines. It suggests continuity or facility for direct connection to another system or source. Is this the output socket?

There is also the issue of the knob on the right side of the upper deck (as you look at it) opposite the counter mechanism. It turns and depresses but I can’t work out what its function is. I suspect it works in conjunction with some other button on the console but I don’t really want to over experiment on someone else’s machine.

My aim is to play the tapes and transfer them to my computer system and then to CDs. Any advice or guidance on the best (simplest !) way to do the capture would be very much appreciated. Just in case it may be of help I use Win XP Pro and recording software called Wavelab Essential 6.

I would appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

Thank you,

Steeplejack.

[AndiiT]

Hi,
The middle socket has a line level output, suitable for feeding in to a PC sound card Line (not Mic) input, You need to obtain a 5 pin DIN to 4x Phono plugs and a 2x Phono plugs to "Stereo" 3.5mm jack adapter, these items should be availabe from your local Maplins branch links are shown Here and Here.

Connect the Yellow and Black(or Blue) Phono plugs to the Y adapter and insert that in to the PCs sound card line connector. Leaving the Red and White leads free.

The far right hand speaker socket also has a Line level output on the same pins as the middle socket, the opposite pin being for a direct speaker connection.

I think that the line level output is dependant on the volume control setting.

The Solitairy red button is the Record button and is used in conjunction with the Start button when recording ON TO a tape.

The speaker on/off switch does exactly what it says on the tin, it switches off the internal speaker.


Regards
Andrew

[Steeplejack]

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for replying so quickly. I think I can follow your instructions. The only reservation I have is that I’m not sure about my card’s Line in facility. I think I have, up to now, only used the Mic input. I’ll have to do a bit of grovelling under the desk and see what’s available. I might even be able to find the instructions booklet ! The important information is – I should use the middle socket as my line out.

I already have a 5 pin din to 4 x phono lead though I will have to invest in the phono to 3.5mm jack lead. Thanks also for the Maplin links. We certainly don’t have one of those nearby.

I’m not sure I fully understand the ‘Line level output’. Clearly it has to do with the strength of the signal but I’ll go and have a read up so that I’m more aware of what you’re telling me.

Any suggestions for the functionality of the nob on the right hand side of the deck between the tape reel and the buttons on the front console? It sits just behind the ‘Fast Wind’ button. I can turn it and then depress it – but what does it affect ?

I discovered the speaker switch accidentally whilst cleaning the system.

I’ll go see what my sound card has by way of Line in. Thanks again for your help.

Steeplejack.

[Michael Maurice]

The line in on a computer or soundcard is usually blue as against the mic's socket which is pink.

Mic inputs are also mono as against the line in which is stereo

[Steeplejack]

Thank you Moderator. I have been under the desk and have checked that I do have a Line in which as you say is blue. My reason for doubt was that my ‘sound card’ is an on-board card but the Manual shows the Line in etc and sure enough it’s there. I keep meaning to get a proper card but it means such an upheaval.

I’m stuck now until I get out and buy the all essential phono to 3.5 jack lead. I’m already so much further on than I was this morning thanks to your forum and the good folk that use it and freely give advice. For the sake of confidence in using it, I would like to know even more about the TK14 so I’ll keep looking.

Thanks again,

Steeplejack.

[AndiiT]

Hi,
The term "Line in (or out)" relates to the voltage and impedance levels of the associated input/output for example a Speaker level output may have a nominal voltage level of 2 to 3 Volts into a low impedance load of something like 3 to 15 Ohms, a Line level ouput would be in the region of 0.5V to 1V in to a load of something like 10K Ohms.

The Grundig TK14 is a nice little machine capable of reasonable results and simple enough to operate as the transport keys are similar to ones found on many cassette decks.

As mentioned earlier the "Mystery" knob that you mention is the Record button which is used in conjuntion with the start key, do not depress both of these together when playing your friends tapes or you will irreversibly erase them.

The Record button was coloured red on some models and white on others.

You may have to play around with the setting of the machines volume control to obtain the best results when copying the tapes on to the PC

Regards
Andrew

[paulsherwin]

As Andrew says, the TK14 is a perfectly decent domestic recorder of its time and will give reasonable results if working as it should. However, if these tapes are important to your friend it may be worth asking someone with a better quality recorder and more experience to make this transfer for you. There are forum members who could do this for a small fee or even a charity donation.

I was quite surprised to learn that you just plugged the TK14 in and it worked. They usually need some mechanical and electrical attention if they've been unused for a long time.

Good luck, Paul

[Steeplejack]

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for the ‘red flag’ warning, it made me look again at the console transport keys. I had, without actually reading the words above the keys, accepted that the one with the red dot was the record button but of course when I read the word above, it’s writ large and clear “STOP” and nothing to do with recording ! I’ll have lots of practice sessions using a spare blank tape (which was on the machine) before I even touch my friend’s.

Come tomorrow when I should have the required leads, I will certainly experiment with recording and exporting to my system.

For my own satisfaction I think I need to spend some time getting to grips with some of the technicalities of what I’m trying to accomplish before launching into the deep. It’s a complex subject about which I know very little in practical terms.

I’m grateful to you for your help. Thank you.

Steeplejack.

[Jonster]

If you're in Hastings there's a Maplin store not so far away in Eastbourne at Hampden Park which would have the lead you require.

[Steeplejack]

Hello Jonster,

You're absolutely right about the Eastbourne Maplin. As the crow flies that's only 17 miles but as a car goes it's anything up to an hour plus the parking. However, if needs must, you can be sure I'll be giving them a ring to make sure they have the lead before I set off. Thanks for your interest and the reminder.

Steeplejack.

[paulsherwin]

You can buy suitable leads from eBay sellers at low prices. There will probably be a stall at your local open market selling them too.

Paul

[Steeplejack]

Thanks Paulsherwin, I did a good bit of telephoning yesterday just to make sure I had a fair chance of success. In the end it turned out to be a straight forward job. I was lucky - I had the last in the shop.

Steeplejack.

[Steeplejack]

Hello All,

Why is it when you’re trying desperately to get on with a project, everything and everybody gets in the way? Thought I was going to nip out today buy a couple of cables and get back to the tape recorder. Six o’clock this evening before I actually managed it!

Anyway – yes I have the leads and using the middle socket I can record from the tape deck to my hard drive. The onward journey from there I know I can manage. I can also record on the tape deck using the Mic and the left hand socket. I still haven’t sussed the right hand socket. I’ll have a go in a minute if I can find something with a din socket to which I can connect.

The only possible problem I might have is that my friends tape may be recorded in stereo. So far, because the one tape that came with the tape deck and everything I’ve created, has been produced using the Mic and it has produced a one channel recording. My friend tells me his recording was made in 1959 – were these machines recording stereo then?

The sound quality is excellent, even with the volume turned well up. There is virtually no audible background noise. I am very pleased. The Wav file created in Wavelab is also excellent.

I am most grateful to you all for your patience and helpful advice. It has also served to show me just how little I know about the whole subject. I intend to put some effort into resolving at least the basics of that problem. Perhaps a read round the forum wouldn’t be a bad place to start.

Thank you all for your help and encouragement.

Regards,

Steeplejack.

[paulsherwin]

It's very unlikely that a domestic recording made in 1959 will be stereo, or even four track mono. It will probably be half track mono which will be fine.

The most likely problem is that the tape will be recorded at the wrong speed. Your Grundig is a single speed 3.75 ips machine which is the most likely speed. Of the common domestic speeds, 1.875 ips is unlikely in 1959 but 7.5 is possible. You can still record this from your machine with a small loss of quality - it will play at half speed, so you will need to double the speed on the computer.

Even if the recording is 3.75 you may still need to do some speed correction once it's digitized, as one or both recorders may be running fast or slow. It's quite easy to do this as practically all recordings made on valve domestic machines contain a low level 50Hz hum which can be used as a reference.

Paul

[Steeplejack]

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the warning. That is something I had not considered. I am pretty sure I will be able to adjust the speed within Wavelab but I’ll check in advance so as not to be caught unprepared.

My hearing is not as good as it used to be but even listening very carefully I could hardly hear any background hum. I fully expected quite a bit of noise but was really surprised at the quality of sound. Really cheered me up.

You can be sure if I have any problems I’ll know where to come !

Thanks again.
Steeplejack

[AndiiT]

Originally Posted by Steeplejack

......I still haven’t sussed the right hand socket...

The right hand socket is an OUPUT ROUTE ONLY - connected to this socket your DIN lead Blue and Yellow connectors will give the same results as when connected to the middle socket (i.e Line level output), the Red and White will have a Speaker level signal on them; if you have an external speaker you could connect this to Pins 1 and 2 of a 3 or 5 Pin DIN plug to allow it to be used in conjunction with or without the recorders internal speaker depending on the setting of the speaker switch.

When connected to the middle socket the Red and White phono jacks are the input connections for recording to the machine from a Radio or Record player 'Tape' or 'External Loudspeaker' socket (or even your PCs line out socket, the one which you would ussually connect your speakers to)

Incidentally, if this is the model with the red dots on the Stop and "Temp Stop" Transport keys is it the light Blue coloured variant?, which, at a guess, may have the "Made in Germany" stamp somewhere in the centre of the deck mechanism top cover.


Regards
Andrew

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Steeplejack

My hearing is not as good as it used to be but even listening very carefully I could hardly hear any background hum.

You may well not be able to hear any hum when playing a tape, especially using the built in speaker. It will be there though, and you should be able to isolate it using whatever audio editing software you're using after transferring it to the digital domain.

Paul

[Steeplejack]

Hello Andrew and Paul,

Thanks for all the information. Today’s tasks include recording to and from the recorder in as many ways as I can. I’m considering paying a visit to one or two charity shops to see if they have any old tapes for sale. I’m finding my one solitary tape a bit of a handicap especially since it offers very limited recording space and I’m always in danger of over-recording stuff already on the tape.

My wife is beginning to get a bit worried – I haven’t shown this kind of interest in a project all winter ! I have to admit I find it fascinating because I know nothing about it in real terms. I have always appreciated listening to good sound reproduction but have never attempted to look behind the scenes.

Your absolutely right Andrew. It is a bluish grey body, with red spots on the Temp Stop and Stop transport keys and sure enough stamped on the back is “Made in W - Germany”. On the top deck it has a motif (trademark?) made up of a large letter “G” with INT along the horizontal return of the G .

The white knob on the right-hand side of the deck about which you warned me – you need to turn and depress it to record to the tape. This one has to be held down. It doesn’t stay of its own accord which makes recording a bit of a thumb-numbing job ! Surely it should engage with something below ?

The Mic, which clearly belongs to the set, has only a three pin din. Does this tell you something about its capabilities ?

Thank you both for your support.

Steeplejack.

[julie_m]

The TK14's "native" microphone is a very nice little dynamic unit with an integral impedance matching transformer, as opposed to the lousy crystal mics that were supplied with many 1960s tape recorders. If I recall correctly, pin 1 is the high-impedance output, pin 3 is low-impedance and pin 2 is common.

As for the record button: I think you press and hold it, then press play and the record button stays down until you press stop. It's been awhile since I last used one of these machines but if it was in front of me right now, I'd know exactly what to do.

[Steeplejack]

Hello ajs derby,

You're absolutely spot on about the record button. I could have been standing here for days holding it down without that piece of information !

You will have gathered from reading some of the other messages in this particular thread that I am not versed in "impedance" and "line-out/in" terminology and am so grateful to all you folk willing to help. I am learning, albeit slowly.

Thank you.

Steeplejack.