UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 15th Jul 2021, 2:42 am   #1
3Phase615V
Tetrode
 
3Phase615V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 90
Default Philips 4307 Questions

Hi,

I am repairing and restoring a Philips 4307 given to me but, as it's been got at over time, I have a few unknowns that I think I need to get advice on before I get started.

My particular set seems to have the 4308 chassis, based on what I see comparing both 4307 and 4308 service manuals, the additional pulley at the bottom right of the chassis and the route the drive main belt takes. The electronics and controls are distinctly 4307, however. Is this a known variation found on some 4307s?

In addition to the 3 long screws supporting the motor, according to the service manual, it should also have an L-shaped bracket supporting the top-left corner, but mine is completely missing this part. I have watched several Youtube videos and noticed a couple of other sets also missing this bracket but it may be that the part was removed during repair work. Should this part be installed? If so, I will have to make up my own bracket to replace the missing one.

Like many others, I found all the belts and clutch brake rubbers melted to a very sticky black goo that I removed very effectively with methylated spirit. I have a belt kit ready to go in but I have to replace the clutch rubbers first. Since I no-one appears to sell these clutch rubbers, I have bought some 2.5mm thick rubber sheet to make up my own. My question is how long do they need to extend beyond the circumference of the discs in which they are mounted? Does the disc need to brake fully in one direction and be pretty loose in the opposite direction or does the braking action in the brake direction need to give way under a certain amount of torque while still being loose in the opposite direction. I made up four rubbers for one spindle disc with about 1.5mm extending off the edge so that the plastic discs fit each other without much bending of the rubber when pushed into the opposite side of the disc. It brakes in one direction but I can force it to spin with moderate force - do I need more rubber length to provided greater grip? Is the clutch action required to ensure the spindle turns the tape reel or is it to prevent tape slack only?

My last question is should the friction felts under the spindle discs be the same on both sides? On my 4307, I found one spindle underside has a large cream-coloured felt disc with a square cut out of its middle. This cream friction felt is held on to the underside by four plastic posts moulded into the plastic which grip the four corners of the square cut-out. On the other spindle underside I found no such aforementioned felt but the raised plastic area around the centre hole has a brown circular felt. The raised plastic area around the centre hole on first spindle does not have this felt. Am I missing cream and a brown felt? If so, not a problem as, again, I can make these up from felt sheet.

Thanks!
3Phase615V is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2021, 11:34 am   #2
Vicboduk
Hexode
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: S.W. London, UK.
Posts: 416
Default Re: Philips 4307 Questions

Hi, I have a 4308 which I restored a while back. I have been going through the photo’s I took at the time and can confirm that the felt clutches are different for each of the reel tables.
I too had to guess at the length of the rubber inserts for the reel drives, I went for a 2mm overhang but I did spend time to try to replicate the original shape.
The performance of these is as you describe. I do not have an L bracket supporting the motor on my machine.

Vic

ps. if you search for 4307 or 4308 in the "Search this website" box at the top of the page you will find many posts with images of stripped machines!
Vicboduk is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2021, 3:52 pm   #3
3Phase615V
Tetrode
 
3Phase615V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 90
Default Re: Philips 4307 Questions

Hi Vic,

Thanks for replying to my post.

I dropped the "Philips" from my initial searches and got a lot more hits, so thanks for that tip. With that, I think the bracket question is answered as it appears that several other sets shown in other posts do not have the L-bracket installed. It doesn't appear to make the motor less stable without it, so I will leave it as it is.

I found a useful image in a post of the brake blocks that fit inside the discs under the spindles. The image is not included in the service manual I have but the poster stated that it was in theirs. It provides a good sense of the length the brake blocks for cutting purposes and it matches photos of those made from a surviving block someone took photos of. I have attached it to this post in case it is useful to others reading this post.

On the friction felts, you say on your machine they are different so I assume you mean that one side has the cream felt and the other has the brown felt. Is any chance of posting those photos?

Additionally, I should have made a note of this, but I have now forgotten which side each felt should be installed on. Is the left spool the one that should have the cream felt under it?

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Philips clutch.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	48.9 KB
ID:	237731  
3Phase615V is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2021, 5:34 pm   #4
Vicboduk
Hexode
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: S.W. London, UK.
Posts: 416
Default Re: Philips 4307 Questions

Hi, Re the friction felts, I have a cream square one and a smaller brown round one.
The smaller brown one is on the supply reel / left hand side. My pictures confirm this if you look closely at the remaining bits of rubber in the pictures and compare that to your image of the drive rubbers.

Vic
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Supply_Reel.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	134.6 KB
ID:	237742   Click image for larger version

Name:	TakeUp_Reel.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	128.7 KB
ID:	237743   Click image for larger version

Name:	Reel_Drive_Rubber.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	112.0 KB
ID:	237744  

Last edited by Vicboduk; 15th Jul 2021 at 5:41 pm.
Vicboduk is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2021, 5:44 pm   #5
3Phase615V
Tetrode
 
3Phase615V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 90
Default Re: Philips 4307 Questions

Ah! Marvellous! Thank you so much Vic. Very useful photos which appear to confirm I am not missing any friction felts. I thought a couple had been lost, but not so. Great, I think I am all set now. I think I will make new friction blocks as the ones I made don't make me feel confident that they lock the disc they are in enough. 2mm seems more like the length extending beyond the circumference of the disc to me, which is what you have.

Thanks again!

All the best.

Ade
3Phase615V is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2021, 7:24 am   #6
3Phase615V
Tetrode
 
3Phase615V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 90
Default Re: Philips 4307 Questions

Just adding a couple of images in case anyone finds this post and would appreciate a one stop find on the schematic and clutch brake dimensions...

I found the schematic for the 4307 in the corner compartment of a donor set so I have scanned it and attached it here. The clutch dimension photos are from another post I found (credit to the poster).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Philips 4307 4308 Clutch Brake Dimensions 1.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	38.7 KB
ID:	240026   Click image for larger version

Name:	Philips 4307 4308 Clutch Brake Dimensions 2.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	42.6 KB
ID:	240027  
3Phase615V is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 3:59 am   #7
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
Default Re: Philips 4307 Questions

Please don't attach schematics and manuals which are available from the service data sales box at top right on every page of the forum.

This is the sole source of income for the forum and pays for software updates and contributes to the cost of server space and connection bandwidth. Without it, there would be no forum, or it would have to become a subscription service, or be inundated with adverts.

If you look in the forum rules you'll find this under rule B8

Snippets of schematics are OK to illustrate discussions, but not the whole thing, please.

You're right, there is plenty of information already in the forum on a great meany models, with tales of faults found and advice for tracing and fixing them. The serch function of the forum is the gateway to finding them. There are over 100,000 threads and we passed a million posts a while ago. Without a search engine you don't have much of a chance of finding all the stuff relevant to your model. And for a search engine to work, the thread titles need to be good. A thread title like "An awkward fault I found" doesn't hellp anyone, so the title on this thread is good. It includes maker and model, so it'll appear for anyone in the future searching for it. It's remarkable how many people rush typing forum titles and make spelling mistakes or typos. The moderators try to catch and fix these things quickly because it is a quirk (I could phrase that differently) of the forum software that the title on every reply in the thread needs editing individually. This quickly gets tedious. Sometimes we just edit the top post which fixes the directory entry, but can leave the replies missing from searches, and leaves someone's whoopsie visible.

Moderators donate their time for free and that means, typically, an hour or so per day. Mostly it's spent dealing with spammers trying to put their crap on the forum, or people with fake locations.

Oh, one often overlooked forum resource, are the 'sticky' posts at the top of each forum section. There were either written specially as general guides, or were taken from discussions in that section. You'll find they are better 'big picture' information than most in-thread replies to questions because they were written and refined over more time than in-thread replies often get.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 6:57 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.