Cassette Recorders

[Studio263]

Originally Posted by camtechman

As to Sony's cassettecorders, there is a website which has incorrectly attributed the Sony TC-100 (pic #1) as being Sony's first cassette recorder and unfortunately this error is now repeated as fact.

Er, that would be Sony's own website then?

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/Corpora...tory/2-05.html

The dates on Sony's own service data from the time and the appearance of the various models in the year by year catalogues also contradict your point of view.

The first two Sony cassette recorders were the TC-100 and the TC-50 (as used on the moon shot).

The TC-12 didn't appear until well into the 1970s.

Sony model numbers do not follow a numerical sequence. The TC-100 was a high-spec model (built in mains unit, response to over 10 KHz etc) and was expensive; there was a battery only version called the TC-75 but that wasn't nearly so popular here. The TC-12 on the other hand was a budget model, it is far more cheaply constructed than the TC-100 series (TC-100, TC-75, TC-100A, TC-110, TC124CS etc).

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by ajs_derby

I just wish I'd saved my old Philips EL3302 from my childhood

After going through a number of other alternatives after my EL3302 died (I think it was probably a drive belt looking back although at the time I thought it was the motor control circuit) I just couldn't find anything portable that sounded as good at a reasonable price. I had various other Philips machines and a Ferguson which were all disappointing. I ended up buying another EL3302 which I still have tucked away somewhere.

[camtechman]

Originally Posted by Studio263

Er, that would be Sony's own website then?

Yep, that' s the one and from the TC-12 I have, which is stamped with the usual & established Sony date codes: On the flywheel & motor show that it was made in 1964.

Flywheel: 46. 8. 6 (8th June 1964)
Motor: 46. 7. 18 (18th July 1964)

However, the construction of this TC-12 is basic & does not appear to be that of a typical 1970 Sony machine & the quality established by that decade (more like Aiwa who also made their version of this machine: TP-736)

The Aiwa is listed as (circa) 1965.

For comparison of the Sony TC-12 & the Aiwa TP-736 see pics.

Note, the Sony & the Aiwa even have the same cassette tape eject lever (& a crude affair it is)

[camtechman]

Pics of date codes

p.s. Don't you just love the battery card !

[camtechman]

jamesperrett,

I just couldn't find anything portable that sounded as good at a reasonable price.

Could have worse......luckily you didn't buy the Russian version of the Philips EL3302.......called the: Sputnik 402 !

[Studio263]

Originally Posted by camtechman

Yep, that' s the one and from the TC-12 I have, which is stamped with the usual & established Sony date codes: On the flywheel & motor show that it was made in 1964.

I think you are misleading yourself there. If you look at simple evidence such as the catalogues of the period you will find no mention of the TC-12 until around 1971, which tallies with the date on the back of the service manual. There is a lot of detail about the TC-100 though, and the newness of the concept of cassette recording. The constructional methods and components used also do not tie in with Sony's known 1960s output (I'm thinking of models like the TC-50 and the TV9-306UB here).

There is no chance that your TC-12 was made in 1964, Sony didn't start to market cassette recorders until 1966 (even in Japan). You may find Akio Morita's book "made in Japan" interesting reading if you would like to discover more about Sony's history.

[Pete the Pom]

I wonder if the type of transistors used in both models may give us an indication. Just a thought....

[camtechman]

Originally Posted by Studio263

There is no chance that your TC-12 was made in 1964

All I know is what 50 years of experience & knowledge has given me, especially with cassette machines and, in particular, the Philips EL33XX series.

As to why Sony didn't introduce the TC-12 until 1971 is a mystery to me.

I started working for C.E.S. in Croydon in 1963 and saw the Philips EL3300 prototype, the EL3300 pre-production models & then, the EL3300 & 01 introduction to the UK in 1964.

So I'm very familiar with the chassis of each, moreover, I have every model EL33XX ever made (including upgraded models) and every Service Manual & Service Note Amendments ever issued for them.

Therefore I know a Philips 1964 chassis design when I see one and the chassis design used on the TC-12 is one of them, part for part (albeit pattern parts) and they could even be exchanged for those on one of my Philips EL3300 or 01 (both 1964) and vice-versa.

The giveaway is the use of the switch unit: SK3 (original version design) which was a weak part and, because of this, was redesigned and only fitted to Philips production models in late 1964/early 1965. This part has been highlighted by a yellow asterisk as have other Philips pre ’65 parts.

So, why would Sony build a product based exactly on an early Philips 1964 chassis and launch it in 1971, when by that date, their other machines had piano key operation, cosmetically stylish and many other improved features ?

The mystery deepens…..but I have a feeling that Aiwa features somewhere along the line (says he clutching at straws!)

[Pete the Pom]

Could it be that all the chassis were made by Aiwa in 1964 (as mentioned by camtechman). Then in 1971 Aiwa had a warehouse full of chassis that they sold to Sony which they turned in to a TC 12

[camtechman]

Pete,

I've thought that too.

As I said before, not only did Aiwa make a similar model in 1965 but I've other Aiwa recorders in my collection: R2R's & Cassette's & the build quality is less than desirable, as is the build quality of the Sony TC-12. Unfortunately I don't have the actual Aiwa version but I've added it to my search list.

[camtechman]

Been digging through my old Philips service notes and found the Preliminary Advance Service Modification Advice of Feb 1964 (published in later Service Information 1965) for the SK3 Operational Switch change. (see pics 1 & 2)

As per my previous photos, this older version (pre mod) SK3 Switch is used on both Philips EL3300 & 01 & Sony TC-12.

[Maarten]

If there are any code numbers on the various parts, it should be easy to identify the manufacturer of the TC-12 and its Aiwa counterpart. I'm guessing both were made by Aiwa, the former only cosmetically adapted to Sony standards.

[sp10mk11]

Hmm if I can side step this debate, I would like to pick my jaw up off the floor, that Russian version is brilliant!...............LUST...........want want want

Gobsmacked
Gary

[Mike Brett]

Regarding build quality, I had to dive into a newly acquired for my collection Realistic CTR-73 cassette recorder yesterday to try and mend the tape counter. No chance, it is all flimsy plastic, as is most of the machine. On the bottom of the case it says made in China for Tandy, says it all really.
Mike

[Ekcoman]

Talking quality, found an Akai GX 95 Cassette Deck at local boot fair complete with side panels and all instruction books but no remote a few months ago, all for £3. A real quality beast, surprised no one had snapped it up as certainly didn't get there early.
It now sits proudly in the living room along with the Garrard Lab80 Mk2 and Sansui tuner amp, also £3 booty bargains from a few years ago.

[llama]

Hi Tony and all,
Bet you haven't got one of these (description to follow):
It's a Hitachi 35mm slide projector for presentations. Slide gets projected onto the back of a ground-Perspex sheet. There is a 33xx type mechanism in the top so (no doubt) the slide advances in response to pulses/tones on the tape.

I wouldn't have even thought of it being in the 33xx "family" without this thread; it has the 33xx style joystick control. I've never taken it apart to see who made the mechanism.

I'd attach a photo but it, and me, are a bit stuck at the mo.

Anyway Tony, PM on its way.
Graham

[ianj]

When I was a kid a mate of mine had a Philips el 33** cassette recorder and I had a Waltham (made in Korea) 124 model.His one sounded much better than mine which suffered hiss and buzz.Shame really as it's build quality was very good, and it never once went wrong.
After that he had a Grundig one with a tone control with a click stop in the centre of the slider which gave maximum treble and bass boost.It sounded superb. You could plug a record player speaker into it and it sounded so good I was envious!
At a boot sale( on the same day!) I located both my Waltham model and the Grundig, both in fine order working.Then I found a Binatone one that was identical to my Waltham one so bought that too!

[sp10mk11]

for me the 80s was the end of high build quality portables with a few top end exceptions, micro-processors were appearing on everything but the transports were going down and down in quality, in the 70s we used to laugh at the quality of the Amstrad etc tape decks but in the 80s the big corperations were using the same cheap transports in there own equipment.
But on a up note, yes amerex, hanimex waltham they all joined in various machines, a freond of mine had an Amerex radio/cassette and this had a single lever for the tape deck operations, wood effect speaker grill it sounded ok..................
Still luving this thread.
and all the EL variants

[Andrew2]

Re Karen-O's (post 19) point about the poor recording quality of some of these machines, I was always astonished (and horrified) by the almost un-listenable sound on the customers' tapes when I put one on the bench. They were almost always recordings of the Sunday charts, done with the supplied microphone placed somewhere near the radio's speaker, or worse still, the built-in electret mic, which picked up the whirrings and other noises from withing the recorder.
Add to this the DC bias and the strange sibilant effect that many of these machines suffered from, plus the pumping AGC and you had a distortion-fest of a high order.
I don't think these customers ever complained about the awful sound quality, they only seemed to bring them in for a transport fault, like no take-up or of course the famous 'will not record' ( on a tape with the protection tab broken off).
By contrast, the Philips and Grundig machines sounded very acceptable, and when fed with proper line-level audio and played back through a decent system could sound very mid-fi!

[sp10mk11]

Andrew2
Most definatley! I am as guilty as the anyone on this one, sunday night BBC chart recorded on some unknown cassette tape, via microphone infront of the speaker of my mums MW Philips clock radio......aghh terrible now but then it didn't matter, until I saw cassettes plugged inot radios etc and not having to use a microphone, this got me thinking as my Portadyne record player did not have a tape out socket, so I dutifully got inside it connected two wires to the speaker leads selotaped them onto a earphone lead I had chopped and plugged it into the Aux socket, I worked out that I needed to keep the volume way down or the dreaded ALC pumping came in but it was a lot better than using the mic

Speaking of mics, I have a Philips N2204 and I used a Philips electret or condenser (it uses one AA battery) mic and a Telefunken mic into it, I used a TDK AD ferric tape and the recordings were miles better than ones with the supplied mic and philips tape

mind no matter what mic you use if you have a noisy family in the background your still bu**erd

Gary