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Old 10th Feb 2018, 2:30 pm   #101
Station X
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I have no doubt that dyslexia and dyscalculia exist, but I think that these "cards" along with the age card and the disability card are often played by perfectly normal people who can't be bothered to make the effort to understand something.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 2:45 pm   #102
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I think part of the problem is that most of us here are naturally curious about things generally. Even if we don't need to know how something works, we attempt to find out anyway - not just in the engineering sphere, but in life as a whole. On the other hand, there are many who seem not to care about any of this, but go through life looking staight ahead, so to speak. It's an outlook which I admit to finding difficult to understand and sympathise with, but increasingly common nonetheless.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 2:48 pm   #103
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
I have no doubt that dyslexia and dyscalculia exist, but I think that these "cards" along with the age card and the disability card are often played by perfectly normal people who can't be bothered to make the effort to understand something.
Absolutely, seen it on here with long standing members who have posted lots and received lots and still dumb questions are being asked...no sound coming out of the speaker, suggestions please?...where can I buy a resistor?...go figure.

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Old 10th Feb 2018, 2:56 pm   #104
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

One thing forum members may not be aware of is that some people can't even be bothered to join the forums and post a question. Instead they contact the moderators directly expecting individual treatment.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 3:14 pm   #105
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
"I've repaired your set sir. An open circuit resistor has been replaced. That'll be 10."

"But resistors only cost 3 pence. I have a soldering iron. I could have done the job myself."

"Why didn't you then?"

"I needed someone to tell me which resistor to change and what I should buy."

.....................
... and haven't we all had that, or a response that infers that mindset !

It's why as a matter of policy, I never disclose in detail what I've done to repair stuff (when I'm in commercial mode)


I wonder if they extend the same logic to surgeons, whose only cost (in their eyes) would be a length of catgut ?
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 3:27 pm   #106
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

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Originally Posted by The Philpott View Post
Whenever the explanation/s were repeated (and they were many times) i could not grasp them.....

I think that in many cases this can be down to poor teaching. If an explanation (perhaps repeated once) cannot be grasped by a particular individual it is time, surely, to change the explanation, attack the problem from a different angle that perhaps the person will understand.

I recently saw in an episode of "Q.I." a trick where a pseudo-random random 3 figure number was mathematically manipulated in such a way as to always give the answer 1089. I spoke to my younger son, who had studied mathematics at university, about it and he said "I can't explain it off the top of my head, but I suspect it is something to do with the 9 times table". He later sent me a link to a Wikipedia article on "1089 (the number)" and however many times I read the article I couldn't understand the explanation.
I eventually came to my own understanding of it by playing with the numbers and discovering that the key was multiples of 99, (the 99 times table). My own explanation, which I have written down in a Word document of some 6 pages is probably at a much lower level than the Wiki article, but in my opinion much easier to understand by someone like me who has had a limited education in maths.

The same applies to speech communication over a poor link, if you repeat something in exactly the same way the chances are that the recipient still won't understand.
If, however, you change the form of words while maintaining the meaning, the chances are that he/she will understand you.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 4:18 pm   #107
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

There were a couple of things about the chap who wanted help with his one-valve record player that had me puzzled.
He claimed to be a dab hand with a soldering-iron and had accounts with Farnell and RS, but claimed not to know (and not to want to know) about electronic theory or capacitor values - eh?
He also said that he was a highly-experienced a/v technician and wanted his one-valve record player back to its original state so that he could listen to mono vinyl - eh?
He apparently got what he wanted by contacting Cricklewood Electronics, who provided the components that he wanted and gave sympathetic advice, but then they might do so, since it generates a sale and subsequent profit for them (not that I am denigrating that). Why didn't he go straight to Cricklewood Electronics in the first place?
He referred to this forum as a "help" forum, but without any intention to offer any help in return. I sometimes get a blank when I ask for help, but I don't then throw my toys out of the pram. If I can offer help and/or advice, I try to do so in what I believe to be the ethos of this forum, even if I turn out to be mistaken.
I certainly don't start throwing insults and obscenities at anyone.
I think we are better off without this individual.
Colin.

Last edited by ColinTheAmpMan1; 10th Feb 2018 at 4:23 pm. Reason: Additional observation.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 4:55 pm   #108
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
I have no doubt that dyslexia and dyscalculia exist, but I think that these "cards" along with the age card and the disability card are often played by perfectly normal people who can't be bothered to make the effort to understand something.
That was certainly so in a recent case in point, in which someone wrote a post in which every detail of the items that it was desired to replace (without any diagnosis as to the necessity or otherwise), was correctly spelled and punctuated, as was the rest of the post, with not a trace of dyslexia.

So much so that I cut and pasted verbatim the info provided on each component into a google search with a view to stating 'you can get the bits you need from here'. I was spoilt for choice with the google responses, so for someone who purported to be not simply experienced in several related spheres, but 'the king of the hill', where was the poster's problem? (No idea - I'm not a doctor).

I was on the point of saying "send me your address and I'll pop the bits in the post" - I'm glad that I didn't.

In another thread about replacing a selenium rectifier, I did make the mistake of drawing sketches and posting pictures explaining how to test the rectifier, how they and the reservoir and smoothing caps work, when all he wanted to know (whether it had failed or not) was 'What do I replace it with, what value of resistor do I need and where do I get them?' My fault really. (No mention of whether the resistors were in spec, no attempt to draw a circuit or to understand how it works - just an assumption that if all the capacitors were replaced, that would be that).

Time and again it seems to be record players of dubious provenance, when someone pops up and says something along the lines of: "The guy who sold me this said it was working but it doesn't seem to be. The turntable doesn't rotate but I can hear a whirring noise and there's a loud hum. I don't know anything about these - I just want to get it going. I'm quite handy - I've got GCSE Metalwork and Biology, so if you want you cat welding - I'm your man. Any ideas what I need to do to fix it?"

Invariably there are responses from several forum members, but as often as not, the O.P. vanishes into the night, never to be heard of again. Quite apart from that, the two things that the forum is bursting at the seams with, are threads and stickies about record players (and DAC90As), so as often as not, the questions have already been answered many times over.

I try to help anyone within my own limitations, but for me, the recent thread was one too many along those lines, so when I see any more, I'll file them under 'burn before reading', certainly until I've got the measure of the O.P, if they're around for long enough.

In closing, the wording in some posts from the person who is 'no longer a member' seemed to contravene the letter and the spirit of Rule G 3.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 6:01 pm   #109
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

David, I thought your response was perfect. The wanted information was presented along with some helpful suggestions and clues in a calm and measured fashion.

The cheap end of record players didn't just keep the valve count down, they kept the transformer count down, too. I'm a little concerned at the thought of someone with a less calm and less measured approach wading into one, but he said he was experienced.

David
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 7:19 pm   #110
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

This is a forum that is run by, supported by and enjoyed by enthusiasts. Some have hardly anything they might need to learn, some a large amount. Most, I imagine, are probably like me and are in between. Receiving and offering help.
I do not think it was ever intended as a place to provide a quick fix for a problem for some person with little skill present. FIXYA (or similar) seems to fulfil that need, I imagine? By being a member of this forum, receiving information is a great benefit. To offer information, is a privilege you can enjoy. To find someone has benefited from your information offered will give the greatest satisfaction, I am sure.
To ever use it as a platform to complain about other members attitude is I feel an abuse of membership. If you have a complaint, there is the Private Message system you can use.
By all means, if a member has given incorrect information within a thread, feel free to politely submit an amendment. This can sometimes be seen, even in recent threads of the last week or so, and I am sure everyone realises the benefit to all and is not annoyed or see it as a personal attack. Sometimes, just a little embarrassed maybe? Few of us are perfect!
For the occasional disgruntled "member", there must be a huge amount of satisfied members.
Enjoy what we all have on this site. Life is too short.
Rob
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 7:25 pm   #111
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

How could anyone not want to learn?
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 7:55 pm   #112
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I tend to agree, Julie, where it comes to a lot of things. However, I really am not that interested in what I consider to be rubbish TV programmes and a huge amount of modern music. That may be my loss, I suppose (it is my loss when it comes to pub quizzes).
I just had a noodle around and it appears that our "No Longer a Member" individual posted a request to have his amp repaired, offering to pay for such a service. It seemed that he was prepared to send it off to Jayoldstuff, even though another member (Michael Maurice?) offered to effect a repair at the chap's premises. I wonder what happened to those possibilities?
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 8:17 pm   #113
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Hi.

May I make a suggestion here. Maybe all new members must participate in say 10 threads without requesting help. It will at least show the member's intent, technical acumen and willingness to learn. Once the member has passed this initiating process then he/she is welcome to post requests for help. Is this a daft idea or could it prevent the kind of problems just discussed?

Regards
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 8:39 pm   #114
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

We do remove some posts, for instance irrelevant ones appearing to be attempting to build a post count, or obvious traders, but we tend to give new posters the benefit of the doubt wherever possible. As has been said before, we all had to learn somewhere. Even the jargon needs to be learned to ask the questions in the first place.
A lot of newcomers are learning in reverse too. They can send a txt blind from under their desk, or instinctively use a computer, but had never seen a record player, let alone operated one.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 3:44 am   #115
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Going slightly OT, I remember reading, about 35 years ago, about a company, Philips in Eindhoven, Netherlands, maybe?, that had an engineering club workshop with lathes, etc. that retired employees and apprentices could join, and it worked: the retirees lived longer, and the apprentices could learn skills in an informal setting.
Recently, I have seen TV programmes where youngsters and old people have been put together with mutually beneficial results.
Though I don't know much about them, I wonder whether the current makerspace repair workshops would be the sort of thing we might enjoy.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 5:37 am   #116
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I opened this thread expecting to get shouted down for being discriminatory or unfair on new members.

I received no such criticism, thankfully, but some very pointed and pertinent replies.
I am impressed by the fairness and patient understanding that practically all the responses have shown, what a good hearted crowd we have here.

But latterly the bad one in the barrel did show up, no longer a member, as I have experienced before.

I did intend to open a can of worms, it turned out to be a tin of maggots really.

There is no all encompassing answer to the "I've just bought a record player, fix it for me now on the forum for nothing" post.

For my own peace of mind I am going to make myself wait a cooling off period before responding to any more of these self centred individuals in which time it will become apparent whether they are worthy of my attention.

And that is my conceit.

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Old 11th Feb 2018, 9:17 am   #117
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

I can understand sentiments completely Sam.

Used to have the occasional customer come in the shop that wanted it all for nothing.

Some (well very few) finally understood that we were not a goodwill store that gave out information or parts just willy nilly unless we were sure they knew what they were doing.

A couple did actually turn out to be really keen, but we could talk to them face to face and gauge their reactions to certain questions to see if they were taking it in.
They eventually turned into quite competent hobbyists.

The others were just plain rude and in one instance, had to be manhandled off the premises.

Being just words on a page, as in the forum, it is very hard to get a good read on just how much someone that asks a "newbie" question actually knows or understands, so I prefer to keep my distance from such posts.

Re the makerspace repair workshops and the makerspaces generally, the one I have seen does have a good mix of older and younger people of both sexes, with skills being passed on.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 11:32 am   #118
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips210 View Post
May I make a suggestion here. Maybe all new members must participate in say 10 threads without requesting help. It will at least show the member's intent, technical acumen and willingness to learn. Once the member has passed this initiating process then he/she is welcome to post requests for help. Is this a daft idea or could it prevent the kind of problems just discussed?
That seems a very sensible idea to me and would, I'm sure, dissuade the 'instant fix' brigade.
I was also astounded that moderators were contacted directly by non- members asking for advice!
All the best
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:26 pm   #119
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Default Re: Having a laugh?

Some people don't want to be seen having to ask anything in public, I suppose.

This forum seems to be very efficiently scanned by all the usual search engines, so it's safe to assume anything said will appear all over the place and will likely go into loads of archives for eternity. Once said, nothing can be unsaid.

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Old 11th Feb 2018, 12:41 pm   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David G4EBT View Post
I was on the point of saying "send me your address and I'll pop the bits in the post" - I'm glad that I didn't.
Owing to the kindness of some members on this forum and actually some in this thread when I first started out (and since) likewise, I've sent components and valves FOC out a few times hoping to save Mr. 'Newbie' time and money on the basis of encouraging on-going interest and membership here.

I remember one chap was emailing me for over a week, asking when the bits would arrive, where they went, how to solder etc etc. My new best mate. Bits in question were all the capacitors, all of them plus a couple of valves. When they must have arrived, nothing. No response to my how are you getting on; No thanks for the bits; No no they haven't arrived email. Zip all. Not heard from again either on email or on this forum.

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