UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Other Discussions > Forum Announcements and Comments

Notices

Forum Announcements and Comments Announcements about forum changes will be made in this section.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 2:10 pm   #1
Boater Sam
Dekatron
 
Boater Sam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines.
Posts: 3,458
Default Having a laugh?

I read most new posts as they appear.
Some topics are of no interest to me.
Others are moderately interesting.
Some are about vintage radios which I find very interesting.

Some are about record players.

Many are from the regular contributors, some experts and some becoming more skilled.

Some are from new members

Of recent times the conjunction of record player and new member has set me thinking that some of these are having a laugh at our expense.

Does anyone else notice this?
__________________
Boater Sam.
BVWS Member
Boater Sam is online now  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 2:20 pm   #2
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,640
Default Re: Having a laugh.

The best way to take sarcasm is literally, unless they are really good they give up. If they are good it is a proper laugh! I think it is best to err on the side of help, it may well be a real request.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 2:43 pm   #3
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 16,824
Default Re: Having a laugh.

The mods are very aware of this issue, but we generally give people the benefit of the doubt even if we suspect a windup is going on. The windup merchants soon get bored and go away. Many people do obtain record playing equipment with absolutely no idea how it works, and come here after a Google search.
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 3:50 pm   #4
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,474
Default Re: Having a laugh?

It's quite a while since record players were more than a fashionable mention to the general public, hence the coining of the abstract name "vinyl" for anything and everything to do with the medium. It's not surprising that newcomers are confused by the appearance of a mechanical machine and the unfamiliar terminology to go with it, however simple it appears to those who grew up with it. And yes some more experienced contributors do occasionally get caught out!
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is online now  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 4:34 pm   #5
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 13,705
Default Re: Having a laugh?

This subject comes around periodically in the forums, often with titles relating to safety. One title even spoke of a "death sentence".

I can understand newbie record player owning members being clueless, but I would have expected them to do a bit of basic research first. In my day you went to the public library or read articles in "Practical" type magazines. Nowadays it's easier as it's all on the 'net.

What puzzles me more is long standing members with hundreds of posts and seemingly many repairs to their name who never seem to learn anything form their experiences.

To coin a phrase from another member "Compulsive Component Changing" (CCC) seems to be a popular repair technique with no fault finding being done at all.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Keep the soldering iron hot.
Station X is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 5:01 pm   #6
TonyDuell
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 2,623
Default Re: Having a laugh?

I don't consider myself to be a total newbie (the rest of you can judge if that's justified) but I have used the wrong terminology on occasions. And I am sure I will again.... But I am sure that's what you mean.

We were all newbies once, we all had to learn. And we all have different areas of expertise. For example I tend not to reply to threads on common-ish valve radios as I have little experience there. I could work it out from the circuit diagram but other member who have worked on said sets for many years will know just what to check first. Equally, even if I say so myself, I suspect there are few people here with my level of experience on certain classic computer systems.

It appears that some newcomers think

(a) There is only one cause of a particular fault (like no sound at all) and that somebody can tell them what to replace without any further information

(b) There is a magic box that you can plug into a device that then says 'replace transistor Q3' or whatever. And it's right every time

(c) That circuit boards have to be replaced, they can't be repaired. Ditto for other subassemblies.

(d) That capacitors always fail, and that all faults are cured by re-capping.

I must admit I am rather old-fashioned when it comes to faultfinding. What I do is to use test gear to get evidence as to what the device is actually doing. I use the circuit diagram/service manual to work out what it should be doing. I compare the 2 sets of results (practice and theory) and try to work out what could be causing the difference. Sometimes I even get it right...
TonyDuell is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 5:34 pm   #7
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,640
Default Re: Having a laugh?

I think I got past the "newbie" stage before the word was coined, perhaps "oldbie" for those (like myself) who should know better. Time will tell though.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 5:39 pm   #8
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,474
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
Nowadays it's easier as it's all on the 'net.
Actually I think the internet is a two edged sword. It's a boon to us, more information than ever, at our fingertips 24 hours if you choose to avail yourself. Conversely, it can make people complacent. If it isn't obvious or current or doesn't have a YouTube tutorial what then? Searching is just as much of an art on the Internet as it was with a library.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is online now  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 9:49 pm   #9
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 3,174
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Back in 1999 I held a house party, one of the guests had just graduated from University. he was fascinated by my playing music from my record player. He'd 'seen pictures but never looked at one up close'. And 'its just like a big CD player really isn't it'. Totally serious. That was before the ipod generation.

In my day job I'm constantly surprised by grown people who are all at sea if it's not 'plug and play'. A customer last week who didn't realize that his new PA amplifier that came with 2 speakers needed cable attaching between the amp and the speakers. He'd only seen bluetooth speakers before and couldn't work out why they weren't working.
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 1:24 am   #10
Oldcodger
Octode
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
To coin a phrase from another member "Compulsive Component Changing" (CCC) seems to be a popular repair technique with no fault finding being done at all.
And that seems repugnant to trained engineers of any discipline. There's no difference between an electrical and mechanical engineer . Both disciplines look to see how something works, then find out WHY it doesn't , and apply a solution.
I'm a trained & certified Comms/ Electronics/ Computer Engineer, who's reasonably happy working on my car, but if in doubt will contact a competent vehicle bloke once I've done my basic fault finding . A similar mechanical engineer will do likewise, once they've come up against a similar electrical problem.
A non trained person will just plug on changing bits.
I see this regularly on the motoring forums I visit ,where some one has a problem with headlamps not working. No mention of checking volts -let's change a lamp /fuse.
Oldcodger is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 6:20 pm   #11
The Philpott
Octode
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,150
Default Re: Having a laugh?

I tend to agree, but also if i have delved deep to change A and B, if C is a cheap component that is a known failure point (and is inaccessible until A & B are removed) then i will generally change C to avoid repetitive dismantling.
The Philpott is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 7:01 pm   #12
merlinmaxwell
Dekatron
 
merlinmaxwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maidenhead, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,640
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
I'm constantly surprised by grown people who are all at sea if it's not 'plug and play'
I am annoyed by "plug and play", I can't turn off the TV without the DVD player turning off too and vice versa, I have no need to have the telly on when listening to a CD. I must unplug the HDMI cable to do what I want to do, rather inconvenient.
__________________
Cats have staff, it's dogs that have owners.
merlinmaxwell is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 8:15 pm   #13
evingar
Octode
 
evingar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Newbury, Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,515
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post

To coin a phrase from another member "Compulsive Component Changing" (CCC) seems to be a popular repair technique with no fault finding being done at all.
Mixed feelings about this.

I totally agree that changing random components is not great and can lead to additional faults being put onto the equipment if care isn't taken. However, I'm inclined to (carefully) do a recap of equipment that is of an age where it's highly likley that all the waxed paper types are likley to be defective.

Trying to logically fault find equipment that is likley to have multiple faults and may be subject to further damage while you are trying to logically work your way through it doesn't seem such a great idea.
__________________
Chris
evingar is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 8:39 pm   #14
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 6,003
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Or Compulsive Capacitor Changing ,I agree is not a good thing and of course you learn nothing or very little from such an approach.

Yes, by all means change all if they really need it but not en masse.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Member and V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is online now  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 8:43 pm   #15
TimLiggins
Triode
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 32
Default Re: Having a laugh?

I recently bought a vinyl album in my local Oxfam shop. The teenage girl on the till asked "What is it?".
TimLiggins is online now  
Old 23rd Sep 2017, 11:18 pm   #16
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 6,815
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Back in the last century (1994!) I was working as a DJ (by night; general maintenance person by day) on a camp site on the French Riviera; the last on the beach road, and the only one with a disco bar, so it was always packed with tourists and even a few locals. The camp owner's 11-year old daughter, who came over with her mother partway through the season, claimed never to have seen records before; but if she was born in 1983, with CDs brand-new and most people's collections on vinyl, that seems a bit unlikely.

She was a quick learner, though! I soon had her cueing up records ..... She also gave me a hand replacing the thermostat contactor in the chip fryer. Which of course we tested to make sure it worked properly afterwards
__________________
Julie {formerly known AJS_Derby}
julie_m is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2017, 10:09 am   #17
ThePillenwerfer
Octode
 
ThePillenwerfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,128
Default Re: Having a laugh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimLiggins View Post
I recently bought a vinyl album in my local Oxfam shop. The teenage girl on the till asked "What is it?".
I like Wilko Johnson's explanation of what an Album was "A piece of plastic with a load of downloads stuck to it."
__________________
"Experts are only good at one thing: explaining why something will not work!"
ThePillenwerfer is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2017, 11:24 am   #18
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,474
Default Re: Having a laugh?

A logical analogy which neatly illustrates the thrust of this thread. There's absolutely no reason why someone should instinctively know what old technology is about, any more than we should instinctively understand future trends.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is online now  
Old 24th Sep 2017, 2:12 pm   #19
Radio Wrangler
Dekatron
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 10,619
Default Re: Having a laugh?

I wonder, though, to what extent we as a group are susceptible to someone who does know popping in pretending to be an absolute beginner and asking a few questions as a "Henry Root" sort of wind-up?

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 24th Sep 2017, 2:26 pm   #20
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 6,768
Default Re: Having a laugh?

So which way does the voltage flow...

Lawrence.
ms660 is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:44 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018, Paul Stenning.