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Old 15th Jun 2017, 11:54 pm   #1
1100 man
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Default Nearly a Sobell 1000 and 2000 DST!!

Good evening,
I have been looking for the above set for several years now, but so far have not even had a sniff of one
Last night a GEC version appeared on Ebay. It looks almost identical to the Sobell- same control knobs and layout just in different colour scheme. The Sobell has the tube behind a flat glass implosion screen whereas the GEC has a moulded plastic cover over the tube.
It was in Tunbridge Wells, and as luck would have it, I was due to be travelling from Essex to Portsmouth tonight.
So after some hasty arrangements with the seller today, I have just made a rather large detour to collect it!
I am now waiting for my ferry and the TV is on the back seat behind me. I keep getting tantalising wafts of 'old telly smell' coming from it
There weren't any pictures with the back removed: the seller thought it was probably complete as he had just got it from a house clearance!
I peered through the slots in the back when I collected it and there is definitely 'stuff' inside!!
The back is firmly screwed on with all its screws and it has a badly fitted 5A round pin plug So hopefully it will all be complete
Don't know the model yet (2000DST maybe?)
Hopefully will be able to take the back off later when I arrive on the 'Island'!
Will post some pictures tomorrow night
Cheers Nick
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 2:22 am   #2
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

So it's 2.00am and I'm dead tired but I just had to take the back off and have a look- well you have to, don't you It all seems in very good condition! everything is covered in a layer of fluff which has been wet at some point so it needs a good clean. Various caps look obviously distressed, but all the chassis metalwork is shiny and it hasn't been in a nicotine laden environment!
Apart from a couple of fairly minor bits of damage, the cabinet and lacquer will clean up very well.
There are some heavy scores on the plastic cover over the tube but they should be repairable.
Generally, then, a fine candidate for a 'lite' restoration so all in all I'm rather pleased! It's a nice compact neat and tidy sort of set which I find rather appealing.
Cheers Nick
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 2:50 am   #3
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Well done Nick, that looks to be really good for its 50 years! We had one as our rental TV between 67 and 69. An attractive set, I always fancied getting one if I could find one and the space...
As a matter of interest, what is the GEC model number?
Peter
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 7:00 am   #4
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Quote:
As a matter of interest, what is the GEC model number?
It is a GEC model 2000DS-T.

DS = dual standard; T = UHF tuner factory fitted.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:06 pm   #5
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Thanks Dazzlevision, I know which model number to look for now.....
Peter
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:27 pm   #6
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Hi.

That's a good find and a nice old set which looks to be a good project to get working. I assume it has the double sided print that GEC liked. The dual standard TVs are now quite thin on the ground, possibly more so than the earlier 405 line only sets. Hope all's well with the CRT and LOPT.

Regards
Symon.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:32 pm   #7
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Very nice set should be nice to restore. One common fault if you get sound problems buzzing or distortion replace the two 2 watt chunks of carbon the are the screen feed resistor and the standing bias resistor to the dector valve they go low
regards Derrick
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:48 pm   #8
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

The only reference I can find to model number is a green tag on the top chassis rail which says 'G241103'. That looks more like a serial number to me but I can't find anything else.
Yes it certainly uses the double sided print but the boards look to be in pretty good condition- can't see any burn ups but until I've given it a good going over, I won't know for sure. Even the system switch looks shiny!
Caps seem to be mainly TCC yellow 'supamold' or blue and grey two tone ones. I guess these were the next generation on from the 'waxies'. There are also a few Hunts red ones. I don't doubt they will probably all end up needing replacement.
Luckily it's a Mullard CRT so hopefully will be ok or at least boostable
Most of the valves are 'Tungsram' with a few Mullard ones as well.

My plan is to remove the chassis and give it and the PCB's a careful clean along with the inside of the cabinet. I'll then replace obviously distressed caps and resistors and any in critical positions- such as boost cap etc.
Clean & lubricate both the tuners and ensure the system switch works correctly.
Then reform the main electrolytic and use 'Fernseh's' method of passing a current through the LOPT to dry it out.
After that, apply power and sit back and watch the perfect pictures that will result
I'm away at the moment so only have limited facilities but I should be able to get most of the clean up done and maybe replace some of the caps as well.
Cheers Nick
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:55 pm   #9
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100 man View Post
and use 'Fernseh's' method of passing a current through the LOPT to dry it out.
Hi Nick.

I've heard this is a good method for helping to expell moisture from the LOPT. Out of interest, how do you go about this and is the EHT overwind and primary/secondary windings treated in a similar fashion?

Regards
Symon.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 12:26 am   #10
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips210 View Post
The dual standard TVs are now quite thin on the ground, possibly more so than the earlier 405 line only sets. Hope all's well with the CRT and LOPT.
Hi Symon,
I probably have a greater affinity for dual standard sets as most of the stuff I played with as a kid tended to be DS. You are right that there don't seem to be may left now- most of the sets that come up on Ebay seem to be 405 only.
I particularly wanted a 1000 DST as we had one when I was young- the usual nostalgia stuff. This is as close as I've got so far!
As to drying out LOPT's, I'm still in the dark myself as I've never actually tried it Some experimentation is in order I think! My thinking would be that it's only really the overwind that is under real stress as it has to handle 16KV, so any dampness would cause arcing and damage to the winding.
My gut feeling would be that about 5W would be needed to cause sufficient heat to do any good so I would arrange a suitable current/ voltage combination (depending on the resistance of the overwind) to achieve that.
Maybe Fernseh can advise us further
Cheers Nick
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 9:22 am   #11
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Very fond of this series of sets. Later versions integrated the line output stage with the main panel. There was even a hybrid version.

In common with the Thorn 900/950 series there was also a portable version, the 13" Crystal 2015. The only main difference apart from having a separate 405/625 switch is the PL81 line output valve in place of the PL504.

I'll start a thread on that model in due course.

I used to have a GEC model 2017 with FM radio facilities, the usual Home, Third and Light positions on the turret tuner.

Above the speaker was the legend, "19" Television, FM Radio".
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 11:56 am   #12
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

I know the Sobell 1000 and the GEC 2000 well. The sets were was introduced in 1964 as a replacement for the Sobell ST196DS-T. That set was OK but it wasn't very user friendly because it had a separate standards switch and a "UHF" position on the channel selector knob. Customers didn't like that. The Sobell 1000 series solved the 405/625 system switching problems, upon selecting "U" on the VHF tuner the set was ready to receive any of the new UHF stations.
Also, the 1000 series looked a lot better than the older models.
McMichael and Masteradio versions were made, the 3000 and 4000 series.
These sets perform very well on both TV standards.

DFWB.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 2:29 pm   #13
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

I wonder if this is the first set we had when I was very small. That speaker grille looks very familiar, and the push-button tuner. The one I am thinking of was in a black case, and the buttons sometimes flew across the room when you pressed them.

Watching 'play school' - what's through the round window? - was a balancing act of Mum turning it on in due time for the picture to appear and stop rolling, but not so early as for it to subsequently wander off left, right or wherever!
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 3:56 pm   #14
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Here are some photos of a restored Sobell 1000 DS-T
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 7:18 pm   #15
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Nice set dazzlevision. Out of interest, what pattern generator is producing the pattern in pic 3? It looks very useful having the circle for general linearity checks.

Regards
Symon
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 7:24 pm   #16
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Quote:
Out of interest, what pattern generator is producing the pattern in pic 3? It looks very useful having the circle for general linearity checks.
It's a Philips PM5519.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 7:45 pm   #17
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Oh, thanks dazzlevision. I actually have a PM5519 but haven't got around to looking at it. I mainly use my PM5508 which would be even more useful if it had a circle pattern.

Regards
Symon.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 7:48 pm   #18
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

The PM5519 has an output that is closer to broadcast standards, as it has a custom sync pulse generator IC, which produces proper odd and even fields, with equalising pulses.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 10:16 pm   #19
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Hi Dazzlevision,
Yes, that's the exact set I've been after for the last couple of years! I think the one you restored a few years ago is the only reference I have come across on the forum. One of the most attractive sets I have ever seen and looks even better than the GEC version that I have now got. I assume the Sobell was slightly more expensive as the trim was better!
As I have said before, it was our family set until it was replaced in 1981 for the Royal wedding. It was then given to me to play with
I still have the original sales brochure from 1965 with Mum's shorthand scribble for the price (£95 I think) and the price for fitting the UHF tuner in the future (£13 I think).
Does anyone know what the model code from my set means? There is a green tag that says G241103 but nothing else that looks like a model number.

Cheers Nick
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Old 18th Jun 2017, 7:59 am   #20
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Default Re: Nearly a Sobell 1000 DST!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100 man View Post
Does anyone know what the model code from my set means? There is a green tag that says G241103 but nothing else that looks like a model number.

Cheers Nick
Hello,

By the time these sets were made, Radio & Allied Industries Ltd (with their Sobell, McMichael and Masteradio brands) had merged with The General Electric Co Ltd (the UK one, not GE of the USA), which had the GEC brand.

After the merger, the combined group soon rationalised the model numbering system. This began with the release of the Sobell 1000, GEC 2000, McMichael 3000 and Masteradio 4000 series of TV sets.

The green plastic plate, riveted to the chassis is indeed the serial number. For GEC sets, the serial number starts with a "G", whereas for Sobell sets, the plate is red and the serial number starts with a "S". I'm certain that the other two brand names would have used the same principle for their serial number label, but I have only ever seen one Masteradio TV set, which was a 4000 series model and that was over forty years ago, so I don't recall the colour of the label! Clearly, with two brand names starting with an "M", there must have been a different letter used for one of them. I think that McMichael would have used "M" and Masteradio "D". I have no knowledge of the serial number label colours used.

The same logic applies to the brand name and model number identification label stuck onto the outside of the back cover (and often on the chassis - usually on the LOPT compartment's removable metal cover. I attach a photo which shows these labels. Unfortunately, the adhesive used soon failed and the labels were then lost!
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