PDF transfer from old computer. - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Kyle__B · 8th Sep 2020, 3:25 am

Copying all your files by very slowly writing and reading in 1.44mb chunks is not exactly my idea of fun.

Copying files over with the USB serial doable, also going to be slow and a pain to set up properly. Especially if the USB serial is a dodgy chinese one with a fake chip in it

I really do think that the easiest and best way to do it is removing the hard drive and plug it in your new one with a 44 pin IDE to USB adapter. Dismantling the thing is never as hard as it looks. Definitely better than the alternative

Tom williams · 10th Sep 2020, 1:01 pm

Hello again everyone,

The USB to serial cable has now arrived and been set up.
Is there any chance that someone could show me how to send the files, I am intending to put them all into a zipped file which i can then transfer to my new PC?

Tom

Phil__G · 10th Sep 2020, 2:15 pm

Any of the free terminal programs (or 'comms' programs) should suffice Tom, I used Teraterm. They have several transfer options such as Xmodem, Ymodem, Zmodem.
First run the comms program on the sending and the receiving PC, install your cable and choose the appropriate comport (windows generally chooses one for you), set the baud rate to 115200 or the fastest available (both need to be the same). Check that whatever you type on one PC appears on the other. Dont be surprised that you dont see what you type on the 'sending' PC, thats expected. Make sure you can type in both directions. Once this is confirmed, try sending a file, in the menu will be a 'file transfer' option, on the receiving PC choose 'Zmodem receive' and on the sending PC 'Zmodem send', then it will let you choose your file.
If this is unfamiliar territory, maybe take it in stages, loading the comms program and getting them to talk first, try that & come back for more.
Cheers
Phil

Timbucus · 10th Sep 2020, 5:22 pm

I concur with Phil_G. You may also find it helpful to turn off any hardware handshaking on both ends as the zmodem protocol will correct errors but, leaving it on may prevent the exchange of data depending on how the cable is wired as it is PC to PC it needs to reverse the TX and RX wires.

Phil__G · 10th Sep 2020, 9:47 pm

If yours is one of these USB to serial cables then you dont need to reverse tx & rx, its plug & go

Forgot to say, it doesnt need to be the same comms program both ends - Teraterm to Telix, Procomm to PuTTY, all interwork ok.

arjoll · 11th Sep 2020, 6:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

USB mass storage support was only added in W98SE.

Windows 98 did do USB mass storage, but in both 98 and 98SE you had to install a driver. SE added support for more USB classes, such as audio. It'll be limited, and the multi-gigabyte drives in use today won't work. A period one of say 64 MB would be your best bet going down that route.

It's 95 that had no USB storage support initially, and then only very limited, flaky support in the final OSR release.

I'd pull the drive and use a USB to IDE adapter.

Tom williams · 11th Sep 2020, 8:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil__G

Any of the free terminal programs (or 'comms' programs) should suffice Tom, I used Teraterm. They have several transfer options such as Xmodem, Ymodem, Zmodem.
First run the comms program on the sending and the receiving PC, install your cable and choose the appropriate comport (windows generally chooses one for you), set the baud rate to 115200 or the fastest available (both need to be the same). Check that whatever you type on one PC appears on the other. Dont be surprised that you dont see what you type on the 'sending' PC, thats expected. Make sure you can type in both directions. Once this is confirmed, try sending a file, in the menu will be a 'file transfer' option, on the receiving PC choose 'Zmodem receive' and on the sending PC 'Zmodem send', then it will let you choose your file.
If this is unfamiliar territory, maybe take it in stages, loading the comms program and getting them to talk first, try that & come back for more.
Cheers
Phil

HI Phil,

Do I need to install teraterm on both PC's or just the new one?

Tom

Dave Moll · 11th Sep 2020, 9:19 pm

You need some sort of terminal program on each computer. As was said earlier in the thread, they don't need to be the same program as long as they are able to intercommunicate, including sending/receiving files.

dglcomp · 11th Sep 2020, 10:10 pm

I've had a 8gb sandisk drive working fine on a Tecra T8200 and IBM A21m running 98SE with the generic USB mass storage driver, another option is using CD-RW discs and the appropriate internal drive.

Tom williams · 13th Sep 2020, 6:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil__G

Any of the free terminal programs (or 'comms' programs) should suffice Tom, I used Teraterm. They have several transfer options such as Xmodem, Ymodem, Zmodem.
First run the comms program on the sending and the receiving PC, install your cable and choose the appropriate comport (windows generally chooses one for you), set the baud rate to 115200 or the fastest available (both need to be the same). Check that whatever you type on one PC appears on the other. Dont be surprised that you dont see what you type on the 'sending' PC, thats expected. Make sure you can type in both directions. Once this is confirmed, try sending a file, in the menu will be a 'file transfer' option, on the receiving PC choose 'Zmodem receive' and on the sending PC 'Zmodem send', then it will let you choose your file.
If this is unfamiliar territory, maybe take it in stages, loading the comms program and getting them to talk first, try that & come back for more.
Cheers
Phil

Hello Phill,

Do you know where I can get tera term for the windows 98 PC? I am currently downloading the version for windows 10, but dont know where to get the windows 98 version from.

Tom

P.S. I hope this is the right version.

paulsherwin · 13th Sep 2020, 6:17 pm

Doesn't W98 have a terminal emulation program that will do Xmodem as part of the OS? I can't remember what it's called though.

I did say that a small USB pendrive would be an easier way to go

ColinB · 13th Sep 2020, 6:23 pm

Yes, I'd agree. I do recall needing a driver for different USB pens in 98SE, but they did work. Not sure on size limitations, however. I suspect it will be more defined by USB pen drives that had '98 drivers written for them however.

Station X · 13th Sep 2020, 7:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

Doesn't W98 have a terminal emulation program that will do Xmodem as part of the OS? I can't remember what it's called though.

Hyperterminal. I use it on W7 to talk to ancient CNC machine tools.

SiriusHardware · 14th Sep 2020, 12:50 am

I think on a W98 machine the default place to find Hyperterminal is under

Start\ Programs\ Accessories\ Communications\ Hyperterminal

By default 'Hyperterminal' in the above path is a folder rather than a program, so click on the folder and you will see a few items including 'Hypertrm' and 'hypertrm.dll'.

Double click on 'Hypertrm' (Not the DLL) to start the program.

The program prompts you for a name for the connection, I suggest 'transfer' but that is up to you. Enter a name and close the box with 'OK'

The next box which opens up, 'Connect to...' go to the bottom box and use the drop choice box to select 'Direct to COMn', where 'n' is the number of the COM port you will be using on the '98' machine. Click OK again.

This now opens up another box, 'COMx Properties', where x = the com port number you chose.

In this choice box decide on the...

bits per second rate (I suggest the highest the machine supports)

Data bits (Suggested: 8)

Parity (Suggested: None)

Stop bits (Suggested: 1)

In Flow Control, what you choose here depends on how fully wired the serial connection will be. If you are using a purpose made null-modem cable with the handshaking lines fully wired, set this to 'Hardware', otherwise try Xon/Xoff or None.

Whatever settings you choose for the connection in this 'Port Settings' box, you will also need to choose the same settings in the terminal program you are using on the destination / receiving machine. The exception is the COM port number, which needs to be the number of the COM port being used on the machine the software is running on. When done, click OK to continue.

Now you are finally at the terminal emulation screen. Only one more thing to do and that is start the connection by clicking on 'Call' on the top menu bar, then click on 'Call' in the drop down menu.

At this point you should be able to test the connection between the two machines by typing something on one keyboard, then the other. Whatever you type on machine A should appear on the terminal screen on machine B and vice versa.

If that all works, now try sending / receiving a file. On the receiving machine, go into Teraterm's menus and tell it to receive a file using either Xmodem, Ymodem or Zmodem.

In Hyperterminal on the '98 machine, Click on 'Transfer\Send File'

In the 'Send File' dialogue box, choose the same protocol as you chose on the receiving machine, and then browse for the file you wish to send, then click 'Send'. All being well, you should see activity on the terminal screens of both machines at the end of which the file should have been successfully received and saved on the destination machine.

Tom williams · 14th Sep 2020, 4:08 pm

Hello cirrus hardware,

I tried what you said in this post and not a single part of it has worked. I'm going to attempt to take the hard drive out of the machine and do it that way instead, the only problem is I can't see any easy way to get it out.

Tom

SiriusHardware · 14th Sep 2020, 4:46 pm

That would be the ideal / easy way if you can manage to get the drive out.

If you want to have another run at trying hyperterminal, a bit more detail about where the process above goes wrong would help. Can you not find Hyperterminal where I said it would be, does it not open / run..?

Station X · 14th Sep 2020, 5:22 pm

If Hyperterminal is missing it's possible to download it.

Oldcodger · 15th Sep 2020, 1:07 pm

Years ago , in W98 FE days I had this problem. Solution was a program called PCLINKER. You will have to make up a cable ( similar to a null modem cable if ancient memory serves) and install on both machines.

G6Tanuki · 15th Sep 2020, 5:09 pm

The software I remember using for this sort of thing was "Laplink"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplink

It came with its own data-transfer cable which had strange 'hybrid' ends so it could be used either between RS232/V24 ports [9 or 25-pin] or the old "Centronics" type parallel-printer ports. The parallel-option gave significantly faster transfer, useful when you were replicating all 320 Megabytes of your old computer's hard-drive to your new laptop!

Dave Moll · 15th Sep 2020, 7:30 pm

Laplink was great. You could even use a rudimentary comms connection to copy it onto the second machine if you wished - though I always found it easier simply to "install" it from disc on each machine. I put "install" in quotes as this simply consisted in copying the one program from the disc.

Once started on the two machines, the entire transfer of files could be controlled from either machine.

I was gutted when I discovered that it no longer worked when I upgraded to Windows XP.

8th Sep 2020, 3:25 am	#21
Kyle__B Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands Posts: 142	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Copying all your files by very slowly writing and reading in 1.44mb chunks is not exactly my idea of fun. Copying files over with the USB serial doable, also going to be slow and a pain to set up properly. Especially if the USB serial is a dodgy chinese one with a fake chip in it I really do think that the easiest and best way to do it is removing the hard drive and plug it in your new one with a 44 pin IDE to USB adapter. Dismantling the thing is never as hard as it looks. Definitely better than the alternative

10th Sep 2020, 1:01 pm	#22
Tom williams Pentode Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 232	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Hello again everyone, The USB to serial cable has now arrived and been set up. Is there any chance that someone could show me how to send the files, I am intending to put them all into a zipped file which i can then transfer to my new PC? Tom

10th Sep 2020, 2:15 pm	#23
Phil__G Octode Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,115	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Any of the free terminal programs (or 'comms' programs) should suffice Tom, I used Teraterm. They have several transfer options such as Xmodem, Ymodem, Zmodem. First run the comms program on the sending and the receiving PC, install your cable and choose the appropriate comport (windows generally chooses one for you), set the baud rate to 115200 or the fastest available (both need to be the same). Check that whatever you type on one PC appears on the other. Dont be surprised that you dont see what you type on the 'sending' PC, thats expected. Make sure you can type in both directions. Once this is confirmed, try sending a file, in the menu will be a 'file transfer' option, on the receiving PC choose 'Zmodem receive' and on the sending PC 'Zmodem send', then it will let you choose your file. If this is unfamiliar territory, maybe take it in stages, loading the comms program and getting them to talk first, try that & come back for more. Cheers Phil Last edited by Phil__G; 10th Sep 2020 at 2:23 pm.

10th Sep 2020, 5:22 pm	#24
Timbucus Octode Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, UK. Posts: 1,363	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. I concur with Phil_G. You may also find it helpful to turn off any hardware handshaking on both ends as the zmodem protocol will correct errors but, leaving it on may prevent the exchange of data depending on how the cable is wired as it is PC to PC it needs to reverse the TX and RX wires.

10th Sep 2020, 9:47 pm	#25
Phil__G Octode Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,115	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. If yours is one of these USB to serial cables then you dont need to reverse tx & rx, its plug & go Forgot to say, it doesnt need to be the same comms program both ends - Teraterm to Telix, Procomm to PuTTY, all interwork ok.

11th Sep 2020, 9:19 pm	#28
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,127	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. You need some sort of terminal program on each computer. As was said earlier in the thread, they don't need to be the same program as long as they are able to intercommunicate, including sending/receiving files. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

11th Sep 2020, 10:10 pm	#29
dglcomp Heptode Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Portland, Dorset, UK. Posts: 874	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. I've had a 8gb sandisk drive working fine on a Tecra T8200 and IBM A21m running 98SE with the generic USB mass storage driver, another option is using CD-RW discs and the appropriate internal drive.

13th Sep 2020, 6:17 pm	#31
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,938	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Doesn't W98 have a terminal emulation program that will do Xmodem as part of the OS? I can't remember what it's called though. I did say that a small USB pendrive would be an easier way to go

13th Sep 2020, 6:23 pm	#32
ColinB Heptode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Newton Abbot, Devon, UK. Posts: 761	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Yes, I'd agree. I do recall needing a driver for different USB pens in 98SE, but they did work. Not sure on size limitations, however. I suspect it will be more defined by USB pen drives that had '98 drivers written for them however.

14th Sep 2020, 12:50 am	#34
SiriusHardware Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 11,553	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. I think on a W98 machine the default place to find Hyperterminal is under Start\ Programs\ Accessories\ Communications\ Hyperterminal By default 'Hyperterminal' in the above path is a folder rather than a program, so click on the folder and you will see a few items including 'Hypertrm' and 'hypertrm.dll'. Double click on 'Hypertrm' (Not the DLL) to start the program. The program prompts you for a name for the connection, I suggest 'transfer' but that is up to you. Enter a name and close the box with 'OK' The next box which opens up, 'Connect to...' go to the bottom box and use the drop choice box to select 'Direct to COMn', where 'n' is the number of the COM port you will be using on the '98' machine. Click OK again. This now opens up another box, 'COMx Properties', where x = the com port number you chose. In this choice box decide on the... bits per second rate (I suggest the highest the machine supports) Data bits (Suggested: 8) Parity (Suggested: None) Stop bits (Suggested: 1) In Flow Control, what you choose here depends on how fully wired the serial connection will be. If you are using a purpose made null-modem cable with the handshaking lines fully wired, set this to 'Hardware', otherwise try Xon/Xoff or None. Whatever settings you choose for the connection in this 'Port Settings' box, you will also need to choose the same settings in the terminal program you are using on the destination / receiving machine. The exception is the COM port number, which needs to be the number of the COM port being used on the machine the software is running on. When done, click OK to continue. Now you are finally at the terminal emulation screen. Only one more thing to do and that is start the connection by clicking on 'Call' on the top menu bar, then click on 'Call' in the drop down menu. At this point you should be able to test the connection between the two machines by typing something on one keyboard, then the other. Whatever you type on machine A should appear on the terminal screen on machine B and vice versa. If that all works, now try sending / receiving a file. On the receiving machine, go into Teraterm's menus and tell it to receive a file using either Xmodem, Ymodem or Zmodem. In Hyperterminal on the '98 machine, Click on 'Transfer\Send File' In the 'Send File' dialogue box, choose the same protocol as you chose on the receiving machine, and then browse for the file you wish to send, then click 'Send'. All being well, you should see activity on the terminal screens of both machines at the end of which the file should have been successfully received and saved on the destination machine.

14th Sep 2020, 4:08 pm	#35
Tom williams Pentode Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 232	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Hello cirrus hardware, I tried what you said in this post and not a single part of it has worked. I'm going to attempt to take the hard drive out of the machine and do it that way instead, the only problem is I can't see any easy way to get it out. Tom

14th Sep 2020, 4:46 pm	#36
SiriusHardware Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 11,553	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. That would be the ideal / easy way if you can manage to get the drive out. If you want to have another run at trying hyperterminal, a bit more detail about where the process above goes wrong would help. Can you not find Hyperterminal where I said it would be, does it not open / run..?

14th Sep 2020, 5:22 pm	#37
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. If Hyperterminal is missing it's possible to download it. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Sep 2020, 1:07 pm	#38
Oldcodger Nonode Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Midlands, UK. Posts: 2,181	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Years ago , in W98 FE days I had this problem. Solution was a program called PCLINKER. You will have to make up a cable ( similar to a null modem cable if ancient memory serves) and install on both machines.

15th Sep 2020, 5:09 pm	#39
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,996	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. The software I remember using for this sort of thing was "Laplink" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplink It came with its own data-transfer cable which had strange 'hybrid' ends so it could be used either between RS232/V24 ports [9 or 25-pin] or the old "Centronics" type parallel-printer ports. The parallel-option gave significantly faster transfer, useful when you were replicating all 320 Megabytes of your old computer's hard-drive to your new laptop!

15th Sep 2020, 7:30 pm	#40
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,127	Re: PDF transfer from old computer. Laplink was great. You could even use a rudimentary comms connection to copy it onto the second machine if you wished - though I always found it easier simply to "install" it from disc on each machine. I put "install" in quotes as this simply consisted in copying the one program from the disc. Once started on the two machines, the entire transfer of files could be controlled from either machine. I was gutted when I discovered that it no longer worked when I upgraded to Windows XP. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)