Advice on repairing a Ferguson 3245 open-reel machine

[GWR1971]

I recently rediscovered a Ferguson 3245 that I bought over 25 years ago at a boot sale and which has been living in my parents' loft ever since. It powers up but nothing happens when I press the transport controls, and you can see why in the photos below!

Am I still going to be able to get replacement belts and the rubbers for the plastic pulleys? But perhaps more to the point, given the state of the heads, is it even worth trying to revive the deck?

That looks like it might be actual surface rust to me. I've been at them with cotton buds and isopropyl alcohol, and while oxide *has* come off them, the rusty-looking parts don't seem to be looking much shinier.

All advice gratefully received!

[quiberon]

I have some spare parts originally from a 3258 that should fit your deck, I believe deck mechanics is a DD210. The mechanics were upgraded for vertical operation on the 3258.

I have an original drive belt, take up belt, counter belt and the plastic pulleys complete with the rubber on, the pulleys are good as is the belt. They have been stored away in a box in plastic bags. They are used, (I stored them away when I dismantled my old 3258.

I also have the brake pads, buffers & spool retainers amongst other things.

You are welcome to have them for the price of postage, PM me if interested.

You can download a good quality service manual, (electronics and mechanics) it's not free though at £14.50, from here; http://www.shopingathome.com/Military%20Wireless.htm

[GWR1971]

That's very kind of you! Looking at the heads, though, is it worth trying to repair the deck? I've cleaned them and cleaned them, and the rusty-looking marks just aren't going away.

Should I try something that offers more leverage than cotton buds, or are the heads too far gone and actually need replacing?

[saxmaniac]

It should be possible to rub them gently over very fine wed and dry on a plate glass surface and finish with brasso. Just be very gentle on the wet and dry and work with the existing shape of the surface

[saxmaniac]

Ps you can only really do this by taking heads off machine so you will need to reset the azimuth on refitting

[Ted Kendall]

I wouldn't be too quick to go pulling things to pieces here - the muck seems to be well clear of the gap and there aren't obvious pits in the head face. I'd say fix the transport and suck it and see from there.

[GWR1971]

Thanks all for the advice so far!

The parts I need are on their way thanks to quiberon's extremely kind offer. I've obtained the service information from the UKVR download store, and the exploded chassis diagram reveals that the two plastic pulleys appear to be secured by washers/retainers rather than screws or nuts (see image below).

Are they likely to be single-use retainers that will need replacing if removed? If so, would it make more sense to try and swap the new rubbers onto the existing pulleys? Or is that a guaranteed way to break them?

[saxmaniac]

O presume by retainers you mean circlips? If so these can be reused as long as they are not mangled. If they've opened up a bit and are loose you can gently close them up with pliers

[quiberon]

I'm not certain either as to the retaining clips for the pulleys, it's that long since I dismantled my 3258.

It is possible they could be tight fitting push-on acetate washers, or e-rings. I think it's more likely that they would be e-rings.

The parts list doesn't mention either the clips or the washers that go with them, and the diagram doesn't really make it clear.

It may be possible to just swap the rubber rings over, but I would be very wary doing it as the rubber is relatively deep set in the pulleys.

The pulleys retaining clips can be accessed from the underside of the main deck plate, though you may have move the main PCB out of the way to access the rewind pulley retainers.

Michael

[ricard]

I wonder if the rubber tyres couldn't be replaced with suitable sized o-rings.

[quiberon]

Just tried taking the rubber tyre from the remaining pulley that I have; it came off without any problem or damage to the rubber, considering that the part has been sitting in a box for at least forty years.

I think it would be a bit risky trying to fit the tyre to the pulley while it is in the deck, as it took a fair bit of tugging get it off the pulley, also, the tyre sits 2.5mm into the pulley groove. Not saying it couldn't be done, but there is a risk of bending the plate that the pulley mount is on.

The measurements are:

• Outside diameter = 32 mm
• Inside diameter = 21.5 mm
• Thickness = 3 mm

More the style of a large washer than an o-ring, see photos. If it were to replaced with a 3mm thick o-ring, there wouldn't be enough rubber outside of the pulley, and a 5mm o-ring wouldn't sit in pulley groove.

[ricard]

Agreed, it looks like it might be hard to get an o-ring to function properly. (I have successfully replaced the idler tires on a Philips EL3547 with o-rings though).

[GWR1971]

Thanks to quiberon, the parts I needed arrived today and I have replaced the belts, pulleys and pinch roller.

I've now got an issue where the takeup reel rotates while the deck is in stop mode. The forward pulley isn't touching the reel table, it's being driven by the friction belt. Is this something to do with the friction disc? Do I need to replace the friction felt pad (I have two spares)?

[ben]

I did one of these decks not long ago. It's basically a copy of late 60 philips designs (think N4307/8). For the idlers you should be able to use VHS spares/tyres. You might need to wrap something around the pulley to make it less 'deep' if the tyre doesn't protrude enough.

No need to remove the pulley from the deck but do watch the plastic as it may be a bit brittle.

Agreed about the heads, leave 'em alone for now . Running an old tape through it for an hour should remove the worst of any surface oxidation.

[quiberon]

Yes, the friction disc drives the take-up pulley in play and record. The pulleys only drive the spools in fast forward & rewind. If the take-up is still moving in stop mode, the friction disc appears to be fine, you may need to replace the brake pads and buffers, you have pair of each in package I sent.

Glad the parts arrived safely.

[quiberon]

Originally Posted by ben

It's basically a copy of late 60 philips designs (think N4307/8).

I noticed the similarities a while ago and looked it up. Apparently the designer of the Philips decks changed companies and based his BRC decks on his Philips designs.

[GWR1971]

Just for the heck of it I replaced the felt disc, and now the takeup reel is behaving

The playback quality is poor, very muffled, but I don't know if that's the head or the tapes themselves.

Would anyone happen to know the pinouts of the DIN socket? I'd like to make up an audio output cable for it.

Thanks to all for the help getting it back to a working state!

[quiberon]

Pin 1 left Mic in
Pin 4 Right mic in
Pin 2 screen
pin 5 Right line out / in
pin 3 left line out / in

Oops ignore pins 4 & 5 your deck is only mono.

[GWR1971]

Thanks, quiberon!

One last question; the flywheel has a small amount of up-and-down float that causes a regular metallic ching-ching-ching sound. Is there anything I can do about that?

And one last observation; the manual says that the main drive belt can be replaced without removing the takeup reel table, but I don't know how you're supposed to get the belt over the shaft on the motor pulley with the reel table in situ. I guess that's one of the tricks that service techs learned how to do?

[quiberon]

To get the belt onto to the motor drive shaft without removing the take-up reel table:

1. Do the flywheel part
2. Around the motor pulley
3. Around the rewind pulley
4. Around the fast-forward pulley, it helps if, at this point, you rotate the drive system by hand as you manoeuvre the belt over the edge of the pulley into the groove.
Finally, check that the belt is not twisted.

The deck is built for horizontal operation, so up and down movement of the flywheel shouldn't happen.

Michael