Radios from the local tip

[SteveCG]

This may be incorrect but I thought that to transfer property then you need to receive a payment (could be just one penny) in order to complete the contract (ie the transfer). So if somebody gives you something for free then they can still ask for it back later.

[Nickthedentist]

In that case, half of my possessions belong to someone else!

[SteveCG]

Nick, ... yes, I can see how lawyers make their money over these ownership wrangles ...

[paulsherwin]

Once an item is in a skip then it's the property of whoever is responsible for the skip. No payment needs to be made. That's why I always try to ask permission before removing anything, though I must admit to taking stuff anyway if no responsible person can be found.

Stuff dumped on the pavement or wherever still belongs to the original owner, which is why they can be prosecuted for leaving it there. Technically even removing this stuff is theft, though obviously prosecution is extremely unlikely.

[Rubberfingers]

For more on the legalities of taking items from bins and skips etc, it's worth Googling "Freegan" - the people who take food from Supermarket bins, often as a "anti-consumerist" statement. The issues seem to hinge on whether the taker has acted "dishonestly" in removing the item, and whether an item can be counted as "abandoned", although in one case, a charge of theft was dropped, and a charge under the Vagrancy Act, from 1830 - ish was brought, before all charges were dropped altogether.

[David Simpson]

The debate on who & who cannot remove items from skip sites can be simply resolved by studying the EU WEEE Directive, and by applying for a Para 47 Exemption Certificate. England & Wales - contact the EA(Enviroment Agency), Scotland - contact SEPA (Scottish Enviroment Pratection Agency).
Legally, in the UK - WEEE(Waste Electrical & Electronic Equipment) Must only go to an ATF or AATF(Approved Treatment Facilities), and not to ANY members of the public who might wander in & out of Council Skip Sites.
Once you have an Exemption Certificate you can ask your local Council Enviroment Health Dept for permission to remove old radios etc from their skip sites, &/or ask permission from your nearest Treatment Facility who come & remove the WEEE from the council facilities. These are usually big private firms.
You have to make an initial one-off payment to EA or SEPA (about 260 quid), and submit anual returns of how much WEEE you have handled, and submit an anual renewal application form. These can be downloaded online.
All handling of WEEE must be done safely & receipts given. When visiting ATF's - H&S gear must be worn - Boots, Gloves, Visored Safety Helmets, etc.
You can also receive WEEE from colleges, schools, laboratories, etc. But, again it must be done safely, and receipts given.
When finally you have stripped down & recovered all the usable radio/electronics components - then the remainder(scrap metal, batteries, valves(treat as bulbs)( CRT's - treat as TV tubes)), can be deposited at your local council skip site in the correct skips & containers. Remember to keep records. Weightwise - record as Kg's, although the anual return form is tabulated in metric tonnes! 80% recovery is achievable. Saves all that crushing & landfill.
Collectors/ restorers passing old radios & test eq., & spares etc amongst themselves don't have to comply with the EU Directive.

Regards, David

PS. To reiterate :- Members of the public are legally bound to take their WEEE to a council skip site. Businesses & Education Depatrments, etc are legally bound to have their WEEE removed by Registered ATF or AATF Operator. The only legal exception, repeat only - is a holder of a Para47 Exemption Certificate.

[paulsherwin]

As I said back in #10, this is indeed the reason why no personal scavenging is allowed, and why most sites have fairly draconian measures in place to enforce the rules.

[David Simpson]

Can't remember, but several years ago I raised a thread, or contributed a post or two, concerning skip sites. Someone did in fact advise us that Para47 Ex. Certs were the way to go. So I took their advice. Best thing I ever did. Avoids hassle & confrontation.
What these certificates are not is - - a licence to earn mega-bucks by mercenary internet wheeler-dealers. Call me a goody-goody old codger if you like, but my reason was partly environmental, and partly a great desire to ensure that decent repairable vintage stuff was absorbed into, and used by - the vintage & amateur radio fraternity. Thus avoiding those horrible metal chipping machines, and pointless landfill of lovely old Bakelite, veneered plywood, etc.
The EA & SEPA expect individual applicants to be suitably qualified, and who have read the applicable paragraphs in the EU WEEE Directive. In other word - no cowboys.
My biggest individual acquisition was a thumping great Ferrograph 6, which went bucksheesh to a keen collector down south.
My most precious is a bespoke AVO8 specially built for Prof. R.V.Jones.
I reckon I saved them with just a few days to go before they received a fate worse than death!

Regards, David

[Beobloke]

David,

Do you have any more details on the certificate you mention above? I was told at my local dump that I needed a T11 Exemption License which is £840 every 3 years.

[David Simpson]

Hello Beobloke,
I'm afraid I don't know anything about the proceedures down in England. Your first port of call should be your nearest Environment Agency Office. Its the EA who issue the Ex Certs, not the local Council. Just Google EA, Hampshire to get address & contact details.

Regards, David

[Oldcodger]

YEP- Herald - strange thing is that for years the lads at local tips made a lot of beer money out of old stuff, like metal gates.

[IanBland]

Having just, thanks to help from this forum, got my Trinitron monitor working again, I'm now starting to feel that "kicking myself" feeling remembering the two dead CRT monitors I threw in the Recycling Centre skip as "beyond economic repair" a while ago. I was simply too scared to poke around inside due to the HT, but having done so with this one, seen the boards and got the service manual, I've realised how reparable they probably were. One was a really lovely Samsung with a simply beautiful picture; I nearly cried throwing it away.The problem is there seem to be very few professionals left who will try to fix them at the component level, so even if you can find one, the shipping costs for these behemoths are prohibitive. So in the skip (well, in fact, in a little area next to a skip) they went. Very sad.

[Beobloke]

Originally Posted by David Simpson

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the proceedures down in England.

I've done some more digging and it appears that the two licences are very different in Scotland and England and you can indeed have one for a one-off payment whereas we in England cannot.

[Gulliver]

From a legal standpoint, stuff in a bin or skip is the property of whoever is responsible for said bin/skip. So going bin diving is actually theft. Retrieving stuff from a skip without asking is theft - under UK law. I understand the law in the USA is different.

In Herts and Beds I have never been able to retrieve anything from a tip/refuse centre. On the occasions I have tried I've been pretty much chewed out about how it's not allowed. A shame as some good vintage stuff goes to waste.

I suppose there is no harm in writing to local authorities to let them know that there exists a vintage audio/video community who would like the opportunity to "recycle" half decent items.

[julie_m]

It's a defence to theft that you believe that the former owner intended to destroy it, since you are only depriving them of it temporarily (i.e., for as long as it would have taken for them to do so).

[mark pirate]

I suppose there is no harm in writing to local authorities to let them know that there exists a vintage audio/video community who would like the opportunity to "recycle" half decent items.

I tried this approach a few years ago, I just got a load of spiel about health & safety and rules and regulations

On the subject of removing items from skips, I always ask if possible.
I have never yet been refused, just asked to leave it tidy after removing items.

I had a good arrangement with a local TV shop, I was allowed to help myself to any discarded items as long as I did not remove parts and leave a mess.
Unfortunately the shop closed down back in 2009.

Mark

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by Gulliver

I suppose there is no harm in writing to local authorities to let them know that there exists a vintage audio/video community who would like the opportunity to "recycle" half decent items.

I doubt if you'll find that they'd agree to it as people would rummage and clamber amongst discarded items risking injury from broken glass, sharp objects, falls, infection etc. It's just not worth the hassle to them of risking claims against them for injury having sanctioned the practise. The old health and safety trap.

[Brian R Pateman]

This thread has run longer than most of its type and seems to have wandered from the original subject.

The forum is not the place for discussion of legalities of skip raids or anything else really so the mods think it's time to close it.