Radios from the local tip

[avocollector]

Interesting - here in New Zealand at several tips we have people that sort out stuff and actively market it on our version of ebay (trademe.co.nz). We also happily scavenge stuff from dumpsters - quite the done thing when one appears outside a house for local people to go and help themselves - and even have an annual 'get rid of the junk day' where you put all the old electronic/furniture/mechanical stuff outside, people scavenge it then later a council truck comes and picks up what is left over.

[paulsherwin]

Most of the more recent grief is caused by traceability rules. When somebody deposits 'waste', there now has to be an audit trail until the 'waste' ceases to exist. This means that any 'waste' leaving the site has to go to a licenced waste disposal contractor who can deal with the necessary paperwork. Allowing people to scavenge breaks the audit trail and I believe is actually illegal now.

The wastefulness of the current system is widely understood, and there is certainly a trend for recycling centres to start running retail operations to sell reclaimed items. It's all a bit of a legal minefield though, and it's understandable that local authorities don't see it as a priority given the current extreme pressures on expenditure.

[Skywave]

Reference post #18.

Originally Posted by AC/HL

I can't see any reason why the other chap couldn't have left with his recorder and given it to you outside. Even if you saw it as he was removing it, it's still his until he actually deposits it.

Which was - and remains - my understanding. I didn't pursue the issue, but it seems that the 'ownership policy' is that although the item is in his car, his car is on the waste disposal site with the obvious intention of that visit and that visit and intention is sufficient to determine the new 'ownership'.

Al.

[mark_in_manc]

I see how that interpretation could arise - but still, the council will not be saying to me 'come along, your car is on our site so clearly you need to put your spare wheel into the right recycling container, as well as your wife's handbag that happens to be in the passenger foot well, and those child seats on the back seat which have clearly seen better days'.

In other words - to my mind, if I am taking *my* Revox for a ride in the car and we pass by the tip to dump a used handkerchief - that must be my business.

My university employer has a similarly wasteful attitude to 'recycling', which I am currently attempting to do something about. Not their priority, and that's understandable - but I hope to persuade them by doing this in my own time. And before the 20-30 Avo8s head skipwards to follow the Hameg scopes and Farnell PSUs I couldn't save. If I succeed, expect a 'charity' sale on here!

[paulsherwin]

I always encourage people to use Freecycle/Freegle, but lots of people can't be bothered and commercial bodies often worry about liability implications.

I agree universities and colleges can be some of the worst offenders. It's quite common to find skips full of computers and lab equipment in the Science Area here whenever one of the departments gets funding for a refit. They are usually secured to prevent scavenging.

[AC/HL]

I have a friend who used to work at a skip company. They do get sorted, and don't necessarily go to landfill as often assumed. However it will be for scrap, not re-use.

[sexton_mallard]

Well done dhunt52. I too walk past the electricals container at the local tip and shudder at the wastage of interesting vintage gear

My hobby was kicked off by a DAC90A rescued from a skip by my other half years ago in South London.

[mark pirate]

We also happily scavenge stuff from dumpsters - quite the done thing when one appears outside a house for local people to go and help themselves - and even have an annual 'get rid of the junk day' where you put all the old electronic/furniture/mechanical stuff outside, people scavenge it then later a council truck comes and picks up what is left over.

We used to have two or three large skips deposited on the village green once a year, for local residents to dispose of their unwanted items.

I was not alone in grabbing anything useful
I still have the Pye Fenman 1 and Philips combi microwave that was among my haul from the last time the skips were put there, sadly the council no longer do this.

I do occasionally find something worth having, see here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=114865

Mark

[Clydeuk]

I find the traceability issue interesting. When I visit my local tip/recycling centre...whatever, all they do is ask what I've got then direct me to the correct skips. They never fill out any paperwork, I presume this would take too much time. The only paperwork I've ever had to complete was for a temporary permit when using a hired van. I can't see how they can possibly trace what's been deposited on the site.

There are attendants everywhere though and I would not expect to be able to remove anything from the site, unless it was very small and I could shove it in a pocket/ up my jumper etc.

There seem to be far less CRT TV's and monitors there now, the TV container is now usually full of LCD and Plasma sets and aside from the smashed ones I would expect a large number of these probably have failed caps on the power supply. It's nearly always the common failure mode on the cheap supermarket brands. What a waste!

[Phil G4SPZ]

Originally Posted by hamid_1

...the Government don't want to encourage repair and re-use by individuals like myself because if an old item is re-used, they lose the 20% VAT on the sale of a new item...

I think you've hit the nail on the head. "Recycling" in Government and Local Government terms means "the percentage of recyclable materials diverted from landfill" and there are targets to meet. Encouraging the small scale and one-off repair of equipment by a handful of enthusiasts just isn't on their radar. Encouraging the manufacture and sale of new equipment benefits the economy somehow.

The 3Rs ("Reduce, Reuse, Recycle") originally started off as the 4Rs - Reduce, Reuse, Repair, Recycle. Sadly the "repair" recommendation must have faded away, probably around the same time as the radio and TV repair trade.

The recycling rules can have unintended consequences. Virtually every day round here we are visited by two chaps in a pickup truck who tour the streets, blowing a bugle out of the van window and yelling "any old iron?". My neighbour left a fridge/freezer out for them to collect. All they did was rip out the compressor motor and the copper piping, and left the scrap cabinet behind because it's not cost-effective to remove the expanded foam insulation in order to recover a bit of mild steel. So you know where all the harmful refrigerant gases went

[Biggles]

I expect that most waste handling centres have CCTV cameras watching everything so it's understandable that staff won't let you take anything for fear of disciplinary action.

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Clydeuk

I find the traceability issue interesting. When I visit my local tip/recycling centre...whatever, all they do is ask what I've got then direct me to the correct skips. They never fill out any paperwork, I presume this would take too much time. The only paperwork I've ever had to complete was for a temporary permit when using a hired van. I can't see how they can possibly trace what's been deposited on the site.

They don't book domestic stuff in. However, once they've accepted it the rules kick in and all subsequent movements have to have an audit trail.

They do book commercial waste in (and charge a fee), and they assume everybody arriving in a van rather than a car is depositing commercial waste. This is very unfair to people who happen to own a van and are depositing domestic waste. The problem from their perspective is that disreputable kitchen fitters and the like will otherwise turn up with Transits full of building waste claiming that it's domestic.

There's certainly a lot of rough justice in the system, but the political priority is to divert stuff from landfill and so avoid EU fines. Nobody seems to care how waste is diverted and what the economic, social and environmental costs are.

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ

The 3Rs ("Reduce, Reuse, Recycle") originally started off as the 4Rs - Reduce, Reuse, Repair, Recycle. Sadly the "repair" recommendation must have faded away, probably around the same time as the radio and TV repair trade.

Indeed - as we are all well-aware. Modern technology is not designed to be repairable. I've always maintained that the manufacturers of such equipment will make small gains (if any) if you take their item to your local repair shop: those that are left, that is . However, should you scrap that item and buy a new one, that's a different matter. The essential aspects of all that is how long did it last; what was its performance like; was its outward appearance attractive: overall, did it give the impression of good Value for Money? If a positive response arises to all of those, the customer is then likely to buy another (the latest, of course) model made by the same manufacturer.

Al.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

They do book commercial waste in (and charge a fee), and they assume everybody arriving in a van rather than a car is depositing commercial waste. This is very unfair to people who happen to own a van and are depositing domestic waste. The problem from their perspective is that disreputable kitchen fitters and the like will otherwise turn up with Transits full of building waste claiming that it's domestic.

As a Land-Rover driver I've had several run-ins with the operatives at my local recycling-place who claimed it was a van [so I had to have a paid-for permit and waste-transfer documentation since anything in a van was *obviously* trade-waste]. A chat with the right people in the council hierarchy and production of the vehicle registration document [which showed the LR to be registered/taxed as a car] and they backed down with remarkable alacrity.

[G6Tanuki]

A lot of the stuff that ends up at tips is not there because it's in need of repair, it's because it no longer meets current customer-needs (whether they be appearance, style, functionality, or not-fitting-in-with-this-year's-kitchen/living style). If you're having your kitchen refurbished, do you want to spoil it by keeping the old, well-used appliances (which probably won't be the right colour or fit the holes in the new units).

When a 25-year-old MW/LW-only radio no longer receives any stations you want to listen to, from a functional perspective it's broken - so off to the skip it goes.

Even for stuff that *could* be repaired, often the failure is the trigger for the user to finally commit to a previously long-planned replacement they just hadn't got round to yet.

Some of us may like repairing things - but who are we to inflict this attitude on others? We could, after all, still patch up rusty car bodywork with fibreglass, cut up worn bedsheets and sew them into pillowcases, struggle with a reluctant-to-start lawnmower for half an hour each time we need to use it, darn holes in socks or sew those odd fake-leather patches on the elbows of time-expired jackets to eke out another few months of life from them.

I don't want to go back to those days, nor do I think I have the right to coerce others to do so either.

[Nickthedentist]

Hats off to the mods for letting this thread run... but let's not take advantage by allowing it to veer too far off course, please.

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Even for stuff that *could* be repaired, often the failure is the trigger for the user to finally commit to a previously long-planned replacement they just hadn't got round to yet.

Or hadn't saved up sufficient funds to afford a replacement . . . yet. So for those who can, an attempted repair then becomes an option.

Al.

[mark_in_manc]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

We could, after all, still patch up rusty car bodywork with fibreglass, cut up worn bedsheets and sew them into pillowcases, struggle with a reluctant-to-start lawnmower for half an hour each time we need to use it, darn holes in socks or sew those odd fake-leather patches on the elbows of time-expired jackets to eke out another few months of life from them.

If I attack my round-tuit sewing-pile, I'll have the whole set within the space of a week

I think there's an environmental 'finite resources' aspect to this which means we really need to get the taste (or at least the tolerance) for such exercises back again, asap. Most of the world has to live like this - and thank goodness, because if they were as wasteful as Mr and Mrs Average (UK) we'd be further up the creek than we already are.

To desperately try to drag this back on-topic - I don't see the IET mag any more, but I sometimes get a look at the I.Mech.E. version. Along with defense, power and enviro-themed projects have loomed large for a long time. Whether repairability / component commonality and all that becomes a hot topic for consumer goods remains to be seen - I guess if we feel like that, we should be voting for it in a few week's time.

[Junk Box Nick]

Way back in the days when I was a member of a service organisation one of the other members was 'in' with a chap at the local tip. Almost the entire sound system on the Father Christmas Sleigh float that toured the local streets was assembled from salvaged items including an enormous bass speaker unit.

In these compensation-culture days, where there is always someone else to blame for any misfortune, it is understandable that the operators of the local tip are reluctant to hand anything potentially hazardous (i.e. any item) to interested parties, known or unknown.

[Junk Box Nick]

Originally Posted by Skywave

Reference post #18.

it seems that the 'ownership policy' is that although the item is in his car, his car is on the waste disposal site with the obvious intention of that visit and that visit and intention is sufficient to determine the new 'ownership'.

As my car is elderly perhaps I ought to consider renting a hire car for my next visit to the tip...