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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 8:28 pm   #61
Radio_Dave
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Default Re: Death sentence?

Playing with electricity is a dangerous pastime and anybody interested in electronics and electricity will, or should, be aware that electricity can kill.

Trouble is that we are now getting new members joining who only want to get their "fashionable" vintage radio or record player working so they can listen to some music. They have little or no knowledge of the dangers of electricity and in all fairness why should they?

David
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 8:34 pm   #62
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In the long view, the problem is that if a person is protected from all dangers then that person is no longer "risk aware". We are in a culture that attempts to remove all risk from daily life which means that many don't even know how to wire a 13A plug (or select the correct fuse for it). Those of us that grew up finding out by experiment just what happened if we touched a particular live wire, or a hot element are risk aware because we have the training to be so.

I suggest that training for risk awareness is the crux of the matter.

However, I have been running a training course for mature electricians, and the one point I emphasise is that they must cover their backsides in case of litigation. In other words, do the job right, take measurements with certified, calibrated equipment, make sure you have the correct qualifications, and you shouldn't have to look over your shoulder for the bared teeth of the lawyers.

A dichotemy, yes.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 9:57 pm   #63
David Simpson
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Re LV DC being a possible source of accident or danger - I once had to replace most of a fishing boat's main engine room 24V equipment distribution loom. A number of conductors had overheated & the insulation completely melted. When discovered, the vessel was only minutes from a serious fire.
Amongst my marine radio collection is a thumping great Sailor 1000 series Tx/Rx. It has a mains to 24V charging unit, capable of 50A. Should something go wrong - we're talking almost welding currents here.
But to get back to basic safety principals - 12 & 24V dc supplies in your shack or workshop, need just as much correct switchgear & fusing, and safety awareness as the mains ac does.
We're a broad church, this forum. Some of us, and particularly VMARS guys, collect & repair a lot of ex military & marine vintage equipment, where 24V DC is the norm.

Regards, David
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:12 pm   #64
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Default Re: Death sentence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
The fashion for old record players has caused a big increase in the number of relatively unskilled people trying to work with valve electronics during the last couple of years. Some of these clearly have no aptitude at all, and indeed aren't really interested in the engineering side of things.
How true! In a way, I do feel sorry for the people who buy ancient record players from sellers who state "Not tested" when what they actually mean is "Dead as a dodo", but on the other hand, if the buyers are short sighted enough to buy "untested" equipment and then mess about with it, there is very little we can do about the consequences. I've lost count of the people who bring me record players they have just bought from boot fairs or auction sites, brought them home and plugged them in straightaway, expecting them to work immediately. Ok, I can tell that one individual that this is bad practise, but how do we educate the thousands of people who don't have a clue that forums such as this exist? We can't, and can only shake our heads in despair at their lack of knowledge and understanding, and try our best to give help to those who ask for it.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:16 pm   #65
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Mention has been made about reading up on the internet, or on this forum. I notice on some other forums I follow that quite often people are not doing this, they just leap in with questions that have been covered many times in the past. It strikes me they are too lazy to do even some simple "googling". And although kind folk answer their question, they are not gaining from the experience of the forum. I often feel like asking them if they have done any research at all about their query.
A case in point is the PRC320 military radio. This has by most standards unusal power output behaviour and odd settings for the frequency. Both topics covered numerous times on the internet in general but you still see questions being asked.

Rant over, sorry folks.

Gordon
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:29 pm   #66
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Re the dangers from LVDC, in the 1970's one of my friends (an electrician!) suffered a severe burn to his wrist from rummaging around under the dash board of his car when his metal wristwatch strap put a dead short across two terminals carrying 12V. I don't remember the car, but certainly my Hillman Imp had no fuses whatsoever.

At about the same time I had bought some ex-equipment tagged industrial NiCads (4 Ah, D cells)of the type where both tabs were at the same end. I had just finished charging them, and when clearing up, a loose staple fell out of some papers I was moving and ended up across the tabs of one of the freshly charged 1.2V cells. It glowed brightly and melted with a flash, and no doubt could have started a fire if it had been fastening sheets of paper together.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 11:16 pm   #67
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Default Re: Death sentence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_Dave View Post
Trouble is that we are now getting new members joining who only want to get their "fashionable" vintage radio or record player working so they can listen to some music. They have little or no knowledge of the dangers of electricity and in all fairness why should they?sentance
In a sense I'd probably classify as one of those when I first joined here. Though I've always had an interest in electronics and wouldn't consider myself clueless even then. My father was an electrical engineer and had instilled some key points about electrical safety over the years, which helped.

As this has now become my main hobby, I'm conscious of not wanting to discourage new enthusiasts, which is key to the ongoing maintenance of this equipment going forwards. I feel this forum handles safety very well, and you have to draw a line somewhere where people are accountable for their own actions. I wonder how many people might delve in with no idea and no advice from a place such as this, which is surely more dangerous
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 11:38 pm   #68
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Default Re: Death sentence?

Some of the above posts have made me feel a bit guilty and stupid for posting on here.
I am a real beginner, but I do have a basic understanding of electrical components and what they do and I have a real passion for vintage audio equipment.
I am well aware of the hazards involved with working with high voltages. If I electrocuted myself I would never blame anyone else
I value the experience and knowledge that anyone wishes to share and I want to have a go myself because I want to learn and I want the satisfaction of achieving something myself.
I thought that was the whole idea of the forum, but it sounds like some may be fed up with people like me 😞
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Old 23rd Jun 2015, 12:15 am   #69
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Default Re: Death sentence?

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I thought that was the whole idea of the forum, but it sounds like some may be fed up with people like me 😞
No, I don't think this thread says that at all. Forum members who want to help will do so and those that don't want to help won't.

It has been a "busy" thread and I think we would do well to try and draw a conclusion(s) from it. My perspective is that the Site Warning and Disclaimer notice https://www.vintage-radio.net/#warning which is already in place is sufficient to cover the issues raised here. If not, what else needs to be added?


B
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Old 23rd Jun 2015, 1:44 am   #70
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I think Richards original point was a concern that people are posting with no self awareness, understanding or interest in learning for themselves but with an unreasonably high expectation of what can be achieved. This is secondary to any safety issues. Nomad-your post itself demonstrates that this description it doesn't apply to you so don't feel bad. My conclusion is that a little more awareness all round might strike the right balance. Help seems to be nearly always available but applicants need to practise restraint and take the advice that is
proffered.
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Old 23rd Jun 2015, 6:16 am   #71
Brian R Pateman
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Default Re: Death sentence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad25 View Post
I thought that was the whole idea of the forum, but it sounds like some may be fed up with people like me 😞
No, I don't think this thread says that at all. Forum members who want to help will do so and those that don't want to help won't.

It has been a "busy" thread and I think we would do well to try and draw a conclusion(s) from it. My perspective is that the Site Warning and Disclaimer notice https://www.vintage-radio.net/#warning which is already in place is sufficient to cover the issues raised here. If not, what else needs to be added?


B
This is a good summary of this thread. No one should be afraid to ask a question. If only because if you don't know you won't be the only one and one question generates lots of answers and helps many people.

The subject has been covered on here several times before - search through some of the closed threads.

There are members who are very safety conscious and others, mostly those with decades of experience as Radio and TV service engineers, who adopt a more pragmatic approach.

It is probably time to pull the plug on this particular thread now.
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