Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

ianm · 7th May 2018, 3:24 pm

I am currently facing a dilemma as to whether I should replace or attempt to repair the bakelite housing of a Smiths type 1 electric clock movement. As can be seen from my pictures, all the pieces are there and it has already been subject to a past attempt at repair, which has later failed. To the best of my knowledge, bakelite is not a material that responds all that well to gluing.

One particular consideration in respect of outright replacement is that this particular housing belongs to a wall clock, which means that it has a flange, and this is the part that has mostly come away. Within my spares stash, I do have some type 1 movements, but all have the type of housing used for small mantel clocks and which therefore do not have the flange.

One particular problem with the repair option is that I will first have the unenviable task of removing the residual glue from the previous repair. I don't know what type of glue was used, although there is some evidence of cyanoacrylate (superglue).

Any thoughts from the clock people, please? Many thanks.

robin coleman · 7th May 2018, 4:55 pm

I would try repairing and gluing with epoxy resin glue.
Regards
Robin

Nickthedentist · 8th May 2018, 7:40 am

Hello Ian,

I would certainly have a bash at repairing it, though as you say, removing the residual glue might be problematic. You could try warming it, solvents, fibreglass scratch brushes etc.

Unlike you, I believe that broken Bakelite edges can be glued very successfully, both with cyanoacrylate and epoxy resins.

I've had a couple of very early 1930s Synchonomains ones whose capsules were well and truly smashed, but which went back together very neatly indeed with superglue.

N.

dseymo1 · 8th May 2018, 7:54 am

If there's sufficient clearance, I'd reinforce the repair with glass fibre mat.

cheerfulcharlie · 8th May 2018, 10:02 am

..or maybe use Playdoh etc to make a mould that is of a larger diameter to the unit with the flange stamped into the top then fill the gap between the unit and mould wall with polyurethane potting and then covering the flange impression at the top. Add some suitable grease into the mould to prevent stick and perhaps bury into the mix some extra reinforcing wire around the screw holes.

ianm · 10th May 2018, 10:18 am

Thank you, gentlemen! Repair of the original housing will shortly commence.

ianm · 28th May 2018, 11:32 am

I've now painstakingly removed all of the glue from the earlier repair. Cellulose thinners worked very well to soften it, allowing me to carefully scrape the residue away.

Just wanted to seek opinions on which glue to use for the new repair. Nick mentioned cyanoacrylate and epoxy resins earlier in the thread, but I'm sure I've heard mixed reports about the effectiveness of cyanoacrylate for bakelite repair. Otherwise, I'll probably go for one of the slower drying types of epoxy resin, e.g. Araldite 'Standard'.

ThePillenwerfer · 28th May 2018, 11:50 am

I've always found CA to work fine but would go for epoxy where the pieces can be kept in alignment while it cures as it has the advantage of filling any small gaps.

7th May 2018, 3:24 pm	#1
ianm Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 341	Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? I am currently facing a dilemma as to whether I should replace or attempt to repair the bakelite housing of a Smiths type 1 electric clock movement. As can be seen from my pictures, all the pieces are there and it has already been subject to a past attempt at repair, which has later failed. To the best of my knowledge, bakelite is not a material that responds all that well to gluing. One particular consideration in respect of outright replacement is that this particular housing belongs to a wall clock, which means that it has a flange, and this is the part that has mostly come away. Within my spares stash, I do have some type 1 movements, but all have the type of housing used for small mantel clocks and which therefore do not have the flange. One particular problem with the repair option is that I will first have the unenviable task of removing the residual glue from the previous repair. I don't know what type of glue was used, although there is some evidence of cyanoacrylate (superglue). Any thoughts from the clock people, please? Many thanks. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Regards Ian McLaughlin, BVWS member

7th May 2018, 4:55 pm	#2
robin coleman Hexode Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 354	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? I would try repairing and gluing with epoxy resin glue. Regards Robin

8th May 2018, 7:40 am	#3
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,843	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? Hello Ian, I would certainly have a bash at repairing it, though as you say, removing the residual glue might be problematic. You could try warming it, solvents, fibreglass scratch brushes etc. Unlike you, I believe that broken Bakelite edges can be glued very successfully, both with cyanoacrylate and epoxy resins. I've had a couple of very early 1930s Synchonomains ones whose capsules were well and truly smashed, but which went back together very neatly indeed with superglue. N.

8th May 2018, 7:54 am	#4
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? If there's sufficient clearance, I'd reinforce the repair with glass fibre mat.

8th May 2018, 10:02 am	#5
cheerfulcharlie Heptode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 708	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? ..or maybe use Playdoh etc to make a mould that is of a larger diameter to the unit with the flange stamped into the top then fill the gap between the unit and mould wall with polyurethane potting and then covering the flange impression at the top. Add some suitable grease into the mould to prevent stick and perhaps bury into the mix some extra reinforcing wire around the screw holes. Last edited by cheerfulcharlie; 8th May 2018 at 10:14 am.

10th May 2018, 10:18 am	#6
ianm Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 341	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? Thank you, gentlemen! Repair of the original housing will shortly commence. __________________ Regards Ian McLaughlin, BVWS member

28th May 2018, 11:32 am	#7
ianm Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 341	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? I've now painstakingly removed all of the glue from the earlier repair. Cellulose thinners worked very well to soften it, allowing me to carefully scrape the residue away. Just wanted to seek opinions on which glue to use for the new repair. Nick mentioned cyanoacrylate and epoxy resins earlier in the thread, but I'm sure I've heard mixed reports about the effectiveness of cyanoacrylate for bakelite repair. Otherwise, I'll probably go for one of the slower drying types of epoxy resin, e.g. Araldite 'Standard'. __________________ Regards Ian McLaughlin, BVWS member

28th May 2018, 11:50 am	#8
ThePillenwerfer Octode Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,453	Re: Smiths type 1 electric clock motor housing - repair or replace? I've always found CA to work fine but would go for epoxy where the pieces can be kept in alignment while it cures as it has the advantage of filling any small gaps. __________________ "Experts are only good at one thing: explaining why something will not work!"