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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 3:07 pm   #1
tv horror
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Default Ehrcorder rewind problem

Hello I have just found my mothers old Ehrcorder reel to reel and I've been told by my older sister that it has the only recording of my late mothers voice. It seems to work however the rewind won't engage and if I try to manually play the reel it plays back at a slow speed. One more thing this was bought as a present for my mother back in 1965 and she died in 1966 so it was just put away and forgot about until recently, there is no corrosion as it seems fine otherwise, thanks for any replies. Also is there any shops that could transfer the recording before it is lost forever I live in the U.K.
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 3:33 pm   #2
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

There are certainly companies that would process this tape for you, though I'm unsure of the position in NI. There are also forum members with the equipment and expertise to do it for you. Given the sentimental value, I would certainly take this route rather than trying to do it yourself with a derelict 55 year old machine.

The Ehrcorder may not be capstan drive so it may be a challenge to process the tape, but there are possible software solutions once the material has been digitised.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknown_ehrcorder.html
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 3:44 pm   #3
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

The Ehrcorder appears to be a rim drive machine with 3 inch spools so the recording will need to be played back on a similar machine. Best possibility is to put the tape somewhere safe and find somebody who could service the machine.

There is one machine in America currently on ebay.
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 4:05 pm   #4
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

You can reproduce the rim drive on a conventional recorder by removing the capstan pinch roller and driving the tape with a motor on the edge of the RH reel. The absolute speed doesn't matter, as you can correct that easily in software. You simply need to reproduce the increasing speed of tape travel as the amount on the RH reel increases.

Actually, you can play back at a fixed speed and fix everything in software, though that needs someone very familiar with Audacity or something functionally similar.
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 8:34 pm   #5
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

I did a job like this for a relative. I started by doing a constant speed transfer, intending to bend it straight in Cedar Respeed. Now I thought this would be simple, as there was a prominent motor drone throughout. So, key it to the drone - job done! Not a bit of it - dear Aunt Jemima still drifted by a disconcerting amount. It turned out that the motor speed sagged as the take-up load increased - they were rather puny in these machines. This was consistent across three or four reels, so I don't think it was battery-related. I then spot checked the pitch subjectively at several points in the recording and did a best-fit curve of sorts. It worked - Jemima sounded like the same person all the way through the reel, and actually like Aunt Jemima, according to the rellies. I don't think that such a characteristic will be easy to match on a mains recorder powerful enough to drag the tape along without a capstan, and I can't think of one which would be able to do this in practice, anyway.
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 9:45 pm   #6
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

I used to have an Ehrcorder and rewind just happened by the motor spindle being pushed against the left hand reel. Cleaning the rubber and motor spindle might be all it needs.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 3:34 am   #7
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

Many thanks guys for sharing your knowledge and I must confess that some of it is away over my head. Yes I could tinker but the tape reel itself is priceless as it has both my late mother and my granny. I think I'll try to find someone who knows how to proceed and at least save the recording. I have watched a few videos on Youtube and some of those collectors make it look so easy, I especially liked the collector who documented the reel to reel recorders from the Mission Impossible TV show, he was marvelous.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 10:04 am   #8
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

The main difficulty is the tape won't have been recorded at a constant speed, unlike almost all 'normal' tape recoders which hold the tape against a constantly rotating capstan. Correcting this speed variation is very difficult, as partly explained by Ted in #5 (he is a professional and does this stuff for a living). Nevertheless, it can be done, at least up to a point.

My suggestion would be to have the tape digitised at a constant speed by a professional, which is an easy job and will preserve the contents. Once that has been done, you can send the file to anyone who is interested in working on it, either a professional like Ted or an amateur who would enjoy the challenge. It would be easy to send it to multiple people.

You could have the Ehrcorder restored in parallel with this. It's an odd machine which would attract interest from collectors, though it's probably not worth hundreds.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 2:30 pm   #9
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

My nephew left it in today and the shop guy said that he does tapes like this all the time and mentioned the Wave he also said he does a lot for the Universities here in Ireland. He added that it will take about a week and will cost around £50 as it might have up to four sides, two I can understand but four? I'll let you know how it goes and as for Ted he seems a great member and I'm grateful for his knowledge. One more thing the shop guy mentioned that it seemed in good condition so that helps I suppose after 54 years.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 2:45 pm   #10
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

That is a rather worrying comment as it would only have 'four sides' if it was a four track recording, which it manifestly is not. It's also not clear that the guy understands that the tape was made on a rim drive recorder so requires highly nonstandard processing.

Still, we shall see.

Ted is knowledgeable and highly experienced, so any comments that he makes are likely to be spot on.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 5:35 pm   #11
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

Paul you've just given me a week to have blood sweat and tears to look forward too, let's hope that he was only the shop front guy and they have someone more knowledgeable in the workshop!
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 5:44 pm   #12
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

The worst that's likely to happen is that the tape will be handed back with an apology and a refund, so there's no need to worry.
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Old 24th Jul 2020, 8:30 pm   #13
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

That's a relief Paul, as for the refund £50 was only a quote.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:37 pm   #14
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

I received word back today from the shop about the recording, I was told that they were unsure how many sides there were on the reel and didn't know if there was minutes or hours on the sides plus whether it was a man or woman? They also said that it might have 8 tracks and to find each batch of recording they would have to charge me £15 per file! So I asked for it back as they seemed so vague about what they were doing and even said that they would throw in a free copy of Audiocity if I wanted to work on it myself, he then quoted telephone numbers as to the final price. He told me to collect it in the morning after paying the £50 and said he would give me a copy of what he had for that price, I have to admit I'm extremely disappointed as I was so looking forward to hear my mothers voice again. However thank you all for your kindness it means a lot. Especially Ted who had contacted me and Paul. On a side note if anyone could help I would be eternally grateful and of course pay for any help.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:58 pm   #15
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

I think you are well clear of that lot. It sounds as if they didn't know what they were doing.

Anybody with a 4 track recorder could digitise a fixed speed copy of this tape. Forum members may be able to do this for you if you are prepared to post the tape.

Once that has been done, it's just a matter of playing around with the digital files using Audacity or a similar audio editor. I'm sure people would be interested in having a go for you at little or no cost. The digital files can just be emailed around.

Audacity is free to download, so there's no need for somebody to 'give' it to you. The pro software that Ted Kendall uses does cost big bucks though.

https://www.audacityteam.org/
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 4:48 pm   #16
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

The Ehrcorder is just a rim-drive 2 track machine using 3" spools. I got mine in the mid-'60s as a cheap item from J Bull or somesuch in PW having suffered leaky batteries in transit. I imagine any machine of that ilk would play it fine. My Ehrcorder is long gone. I'd have to test my CrownCorder (or whatever it is) but I'd even post the machine to the OP so he could get some joy even though he's been ripped off so far.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 7:37 pm   #17
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

PM sent.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 8:24 pm   #18
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by llama View Post
The Ehrcorder is just a rim-drive 2 track machine using 3" spools. I got mine in the mid-'60s as a cheap item from J Bull or somesuch in PW having suffered leaky batteries in transit. I imagine any machine of that ilk would play it fine. My Ehrcorder is long gone. I'd have to test my CrownCorder (or whatever it is) but I'd even post the machine to the OP so he could get some joy even though he's been ripped off so far.
Graham
Thank you Graham for the kind offer however I would just look at it as I don't have a clue how to fix these machines and my hat is off to those that do! Heck I just know how to turn on and off my PC that's about the height of my tech knowledge.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 8:30 pm   #19
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Default Re: Ehrcorder rewind problem

If Ted is prepared to help you out without charging a fortune then you should bite his hand off. Of all the forum members capable of dealing with this sort of thing, he is by far the best qualified.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 12:17 pm   #20
Ted Kendall
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Reporting back. I was sent both the tape and the machine. It was fairly soon obvious that the machine was BER - some batteries had leaked at some time, eroding the contact strips, but the major problem was the left hand spool turntable mounting. Its shaft is attached to an arm which pivots on a bolt to engage rewind. No bearing here, just a hole in the end of the arm, which had gone oval, and a soggy spring to boot. Somebody had been in before, judging by the hacked round case screw and blobs of solder on the rewind pivot. It is of sentimental value to the OP, so was returned.

The tape was interesting - for a start, it was not the low-coercivity Japanese tape usually sold with these machines, but had a black oxide coat on both sides. KJ Enterprises, as they then were, sold a batch of Scotch double coated tape around this time, so maybe it was this. If so, it would go some way to explaining the dreadful recording quality - from either side of the tape, although one side was marginally brighter. These machines were DC bias, and the black Scotch oxides needed a higher bias than earlier types. Added to this, any recorded material was intermittent in nature, mostly at low level and with frequent loud bangs. These had to come out manually, and the recorded sections were too short for matters of drift to intrude, so I tweaked the speed to be about right for each. I'm almost inclined to think the tape was spooled through the machine with the erase magnet partially engaged. Anyway, the idea was to get off whatever was on there, and this I managed. It sounds like several different people reading bits of this and that, some joshing and joking, some singing - I just hope the OP finds something of meaning in there.
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