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Old 11th Dec 2014, 1:24 pm   #21
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

I think that one of the limiting factors is the relatively small number of enthusiasts who are in the market for specialist books at any price and in whatever format. Many these days - whatever hobby or pastime they're into or whatever skill they wish to acquire or enhance - will probably search internet, seek advice on forums, and only as a last resort will consider buying a book. Also, some skills are better acquired by watching tutorials on youtube or DVDs - French polishing, veneering, using a router being a good examples. Next to impossible to do by reliance solely on books.

I'm secretary of the local woodturning society. We have 50 active members and a comprehensive library of excellent books and DVDs for loan to them. The books are hardly ever borrowed, and usually just to get inspiration and ideas of shapes and choices of timber. Few books on techniques are borrowed because by the very nature of woodturning, much more can be gained from watching a video with a running commentary on why a particular tool is being used for a particular task, what speed the lathe is running at, how to sharpen tools, what pitfalls to avoid, and so on. It isn't really a skill that can be acquired simply from reading a book. As a consequence, we now only buy DVDs. In slimming down the stock of books by selling them off to members, books in pristine condition which cost £25.00 five years ago and have rarely been borrowed often remain unsold at £3.00 - less than the cost of a magazine. And this is to people who are active in the hobby, turn out on dark winters nights to attend meetings, and enter monthly competitions.

Where books do come into their own is as works of reference and in our hobby, that covers such things as fault-finding techniques and diagnostic flow charts, how to use test gear, safety precautions, how to take measurements of voltages and current, circuit descriptions and so forth. I bought Tony's 'Vintage Radios' book in the 'Crowood Collectors Series' which is a real delight and spans the history or radio, copiously illustrated with excellent full colour pics. It cost £19.95 in 2007 in hardback (equal to £24.00 today), and for me, price wouldn't be a limiting factor, given that magazines cost a fiver nowadays and often have little editorial content.

I also have Tony's book 'Vintage Valve Radios - A Practical Guide for Collectors and Restorers' (2012) which was £14.95 and is in paperback and monochrome, though with an attractive colour front cover. Many of the pages would not have benefitted from colour, but quite a lot would have. I'd have been willing to pay £20 - £25.00 for a colour version, but whether it could have been produced for that is quite another thing.

I would have loved to have bought a paper version of Tony's monochrome book 'Restoring Vintage Valve Radios - A Comprehensive Guide' but the paper version had sold out, so I bought and downloaded the electronic version from Tony's website. An excellent publication, which I agree would be enhanced had it been in colour. I'd draw a parallel between Radio Bygones and the BVWS Bulletin in this respect. RB has colour from and back covers (inside and out) but monochrome pages, whereas the BVWS Bulletin is full colour throughout. Monochrome doesn't matter for such things as circuit diagrams, but a great deal is lost when pictures are monochrome. That said, I've no doubt that if RB said 'would readers prefer to have colour at 50% more?', most subscribers would say 'no'.

Be it monochrome or colour, and in whatever format or price, I doubt that the market would exceed more than 1,000 or so, but that's just my gut feeling.

As to price, I'd happily pay £15.00 for a monochrome book or £25.00 for colour, but again, I'm probably not an accurate barometer.

As to Kindle books I do have a Kindle and mainly read biographies, but often they're not much cheaper than paperback versions of the same book, for two reasons. Firstly, there is no VAT on paper books, but there is on e-books. Secondly, Amazon doesn't have a monopoly on paper books but it does on Kindle, plus the fact that with a Wi-Fi Kindle, users are much more likely to buy on impulse anywhere and any time where they can get a signal - even if they're propped up in bed with insomnia! No need to go to Amazon's website and order the book.

I don't think that any of the three books of Tony's that I have would be well suited to the small format Kindle or similar e-reader.

All in all, it seems to me that if the financial risk is carried by the author, publishing short print run books is a rather risky financial gamble for little, if any gain at the end of the day.

Isn't it also the case that to get an ISBN Number, many copies of the book must be donated to libraries at the publisher's expense, or an I mistaken?
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Old 11th Dec 2014, 4:54 pm   #22
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

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Originally Posted by David G4EBT View Post
Isn't it also the case that to get an ISBN Number, many copies of the book must be donated to libraries at the publisher's expense, or an I mistaken?
No, that is not the case. These days most self-publishers offer packages that include an ISBN. These deals range from about £50 upwards, depending on what other services are included (such as advertising, distribution etc).
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Old 12th Dec 2014, 11:21 am   #23
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

For clarity, ISBN numbers obtained by self publishers incur the legal requirement to donate copies to six named libraries, a not insubstantial sum - including postage.
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Old 12th Dec 2014, 9:18 pm   #24
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

You must mean self publishers who do EVERYTHING themselves? Rather than using a 'self publishing' website who presumably do this for you (I've used such a website and I didn't have to donate any books for my ISBNs)
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 5:28 pm   #25
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Exactly, David - the books I published under my 'VRW' publishing logo each required an ISBN (as of course does every printed book). For these I had to contact the source and pay for a batch of ISBNs. Then, once published, each book had to be registered as such with what was then the Neilsen agency. Six copies had to be sent to libraries. This latter is a legal requirement.

All this was done before Amazon's CreateSpace was available. My last book was printed at a local (but national) print-on-demand company. They offered the best deal I could find at the time but even so, print on demand or no, it was still more economical to have several hundred printed in one go. If I'd used that firm's - or for that matter, any other firm's - publishing system it would have cost me far more.

There's no doubt in my mind that CreateSpace is the way forward today. It saves time and expense and cuts out a lot of red tape. How they get around the 'six books' ruling isn't known to me, only that I was leaned on quite heavily with veiled threats of legal proceedings when I was a few days late with my sending of them.

On the point raised by David (woodturning: videos V books) I would only add that we are not talking about the same animal, are we. Woodturning is a visual thing in a way that vintage radio repair and restoration is not. Videos are OK for vintage radio as a general interest device and I have a number of my videos linked on my website but I still think that for solid theoretical and practical knowledge of the subject a book beats a video hands down in this case

The best way to learn by far is direct teaching. A book is second best, but a fair second I believe.

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Old 13th Dec 2014, 6:08 pm   #26
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

For my own interest, does a book need an ISBN to be published?
 
Old 13th Dec 2014, 7:08 pm   #27
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

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Originally Posted by Aerodyne View Post

On the point raised by David (woodturning: videos V books) I would only add that we are not talking about the same animal, are we. Woodturning is a visual thing in a way that vintage radio repair and restoration is not. Videos are OK for vintage radio as a general interest device and I have a number of my videos linked on my website but I still think that for solid theoretical and practical knowledge of the subject a book beats a video hands down in this case

The best way to learn by far is direct teaching. A book is second best, but a fair second I believe.

Tony
You're right of course Tony in regard to woodturning - or indeed any lathe work - is a dynamic activity - nothing happens till the lathe is switched on and books are a poor substitute for either personal tuition or videos. But as you say, for this hobby of ours, theory, circuits, fault-finding charts and so forth, a book is always to hand for reference. However, for such things as alignment of radios, fault diagnosis, cabinet restoration, videos can be almost as good as 1:1 tuition (as your own videos testify). The only downside is that with a video, there's no opportunity to interject with questions, but then neither is there with a book.

I hope you've got enough feedback from this thread to help decided on the best way forward.

If you do decide to go ahead with the book, it will certainly find its way onto my bookshelves, alongside the others!
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Old 13th Dec 2014, 9:07 pm   #28
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Merlin, to the best of my knowledge all printed books have to have an ISBN. I believe it is another of those 'legal requirements'. I even believe it applies to Kindle and similar system books, too, though the name isn't likely to be headed as ISBN - that's the International Standard Book Number.
I'm not sure about CD ROM type products but believe them to be exempt from numbering.
I appreciate your comments, David and I endorse them fully. As I said before, the best way is to stand at the side of the skilled restorer and learn directly. A book is second best but in the absence of a tutor, books do an invaluable service and have done for thousands of us over the years (thanks, Mr. Camm and Mr. Scroggie)

I've been looking over the original files for the book and have made a sort of tentative start on a rewrite.

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Old 14th Dec 2014, 12:40 pm   #29
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

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Merlin, to the best of my knowledge all printed books have to have an ISBN.
You can, of course, have a print-on-demand document that is 'book shaped' but does not have an ISBN. It won't appear on official book databases of course, so won't be available to libraries and book shops. But if it's the sort of book that people would only ever discover via websites and forums, then that may be all that is needed. Someone finds out about the book online, orders it from the print-on-demand website, and hey presto a book arrives in the post; at no cost to the author at all! A lot of niche-subject material is done this way.
People also use it as a means of getting hard copies of public-domain material like really old textbooks that have been turned into PDFs.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 1:48 pm   #30
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Further to all these detailed observations re self publishing [and my interest in coincidence] I went to a Crafts fair here in Bexhill yesterday at St Barnabas Church on Sea Road. I bought a book by local author Dave Masters "IXION of the Motor Cycle" re Canon Basil Davies, one time incumbent, who was [secretly] a motor cycle journalist for decades under that pen name. [There was a beautifully restored 20's bike in racing green, standing outside the front door of the Church].

The book is 21x30cm or [near enough] 8"x12"] in old money, 162 semi glossy pages-colour inserts and some full colour pages with incredible posters of the day, an excellent job! The price was £18 but I refused the £2 "change" on the basis that I had already avoided £4 postage simply by walking down to the venue [on the way to a lunch time pint] and would make it a donation towards further publications.

Dave seemed to be a very nice person [these authors invariably are in my experience] and I was invited to sit at the stall with him while we had a chat. He told me that he had lived in Brixton as a child and was taken aback when I asked him if he knew about Gerry Wells. His garden actually backed on to Gerry's although they were one of the few families that didn't have a through connection to the Wells property. He said that the view from his own house was endless shed roofs in the [now Museum] garden. If you read this Gerry you were fondly remembered

Media Note-Canon Basil must have been very charismatic. When he retired in
1940 [he died in 1961] most of the congregation went elsewhere! I compared this to the episode of "Sykes And A Bus" where passengers will only travel on his vehicle because of the personal "service" [pun intended]. Dave then said that he drives a local Charity transport in Bexhill and it's run very much the same way as Eric and Hattie.
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Old 14th Dec 2014, 8:55 pm   #31
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

I can see I need to look into alternative sources for colour printing. The ones I use make the cost prohibitive.
As for Eric Sykes - a comedy genius. My favourite comedy film is 'The Plank', starring a host of the then well-known faces in British comedy, headed of course by Sykes, assisted by Tommy Cooper. Entirely Sykes - writing, directing, acting. Brilliant.
Way off topic now...
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Old 20th Jan 2015, 1:25 pm   #32
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Further to this thread, I have now completed a rewrite of 'Vintage Valve Radios' and placed the book on Amazon. It is available soon - within the next few days - but oddly, Amazon are showing the new edition now, saying that it isn't yet available but they've also got the original version, the one that many forum members bought, and again they are saying that is isn't available. The attached picture is the one to look for.

There is quite a lot that's new but I must point out that anyone who owns a copy of the original would probably not benefit greatly from this version.
Within the next couple of months I hope to complete a rewrite of 'Vintage Radios - Collecting, Servicing, Restoring' and anyone who hasn't read this can be assured that it will be up to date and considerably expanded on the original. There will be a quite detailed appraisal of visual radio design added to this volume, too.

Anyone not familiar with valve radio practice might find the simple descriptions on 'Vintage Valve Radios' helpful.
Both books cover obtaining sets, fault-finding and cabinet work.

I can't place an exact link as yet but if you search Amazon with 'Vintage Valve Radios' as a search term, you should find it.

I am not in a position to supply the book direct, sorry. Amazon/Createspace are very quick on delivery.

Tony

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Old 21st Jan 2015, 10:57 pm   #33
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Tony,

I am a little late to the discussion, but I much prefer hard copies of all technical manuals I have to deal with - A specialist subject would easily command a £25 price tag, and that hardly covers the cost of printing on a small run - so getting a little something for your time is going to be difficult.

Industry standard format for electronic versions of technical publications is the PDF, I have literally hundreds of them both work and hobby related, all of which read fairly well off screen (on a proper laptop) but are pretty useless on tablet and smaller screen devices.

They do however print very well, manuals or diagrams I refer to on a regular basis are printed and bound somehow, to give a hard copy.

Reference books are just that - a book, not something that lurks on a screen - I hope your latest reprint works out for you - there are too few willing to try to put their considerable knowledge down on paper these days.
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Old 22nd Jan 2015, 12:30 am   #34
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

I absolutely agree with Sean's final sentence. Not many authors would rush to say don't buy my book if you've got the previous edition but there seems to be a content argument for doing just that as well as the fact that these items sell out and become rare/expensive. The cover of the new edition is an inducement in itself!

There may soon come a time when the daily newspapers/books and blueprints we throw away are of great interest [photos never used to be in Gallerys]. I've always thought that writing a good childrens book is as hard as producing a music single. When my daughter was small I identified four books that looked promising but I didn't buy one of the first 1000 Harry Potter print run damn. I have got a first edition HB of 2001 A Space Odyssey though [1968].

As for Tony's book Amazon do indeed seem to be a bit confused. I think a few questions might be in order Tony
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Old 25th Jan 2015, 9:38 pm   #35
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Thanks for your input, Sean. As always logical and incisive. I entirely agree with you. I too find PDFs great for general information and viewing on my large screen. I do not possess a tablet and suspect that my eyesight - which is deteriorating, so I'm not being unreasonable or dated in my attitude - would not be helped by such tiny displays. I'll stick with my 22" monitor.

Dave, for clarity the only books of mine presently on Amazon are:
The Crowood collector's book 'Vintage Radios' and the new addition 'Vintage Valve Radios'. It seems they have both for sale presently but the original edition of 'Vintage Valve Radios' is still advertised though I have never supplied Amazon or any of their feeder distributors, so why they have that on offer but unavailable is beyond me. They even have a picture of the cover. Where did that come from?
As you say, perhaps I'll need to attempt to have a word with them about it.
There are still advertisers on Amazon attempting to sell copies of early editions of my books at ludicrously inflated prices. I do not wish them success.

It is true that any kind of writing these days is only very rarely going to prove financially worthwhile. If I break even on a print run I consider that I've done well. I certainly don't wish to get rich on the proceeds which, all things considered, is probably just as well.
On my website I also advertise a work of fiction, my first attempt at such a thing. I placed this on Amazon, via Createspace, and sat back expectantly. A few months later I've earned a princely 80p profit. To put it in context the book was written, on and off, over several years. Maybe I've wasted my time...

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I'll attempt to keep you all informed as to the progress or more likely lack of progress of my literary efforts.
Tony
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Old 4th Apr 2015, 8:11 pm   #36
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

An update on this thread:
I've completed a full rewrite of the first book I published (in 1999):
'VINTAGE RADIOS collecting-servicing-restoring' and it is now being processed by Createspace. If all is well and no serious adjustments will be found essential (I'm confident...) the book will be on offer on Amazon and by order from any bookshop within the next few days, certainly before the middle of April.
I did look into colour printing. Createspace are VERY expensive for this. I toyed with Ingram Spark for a while. They were certainly cheaper for colour than Createspace but I did find complaints about their business ethics that put me off rather.
So... monochrome, 10" x 8", 160-odd pages each in two-column format. A very much increased coverage compared with the original with more restorations, more about design both technical and visual and additional items to build. Even so, if you have the original there is still the 'skeleton' of it present in the new book (though newly clothed!) so do bear this in mind before spending your hard-earned cash.
It will be priced at £12.95 (free postage in UK from Amazon).
I'll add a link and any more details once the book is available.
I would point out to all members that this kind of work demands attention and long hours and is the reason why I have added little to the forum since before Christmas. It is likely to be my last literary effort. I feel the need to start my long-delayed retirement!
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Old 4th Apr 2015, 10:54 pm   #37
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Default Re: Vintage Radios book - straw poll

Thanks for the information, being new to radio restoration this is a "Must Have"
Will order as soon as its available from amazon.
Cheers Ed.
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