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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 4:53 pm   #21
Ted Kendall
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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Originally Posted by John10b View Post
Just finished reading the Garrard 301 Instructions, thanks to Ray, i note it says “should be mounted on Wooden Plynth”, and it’s test report says “rumble almost non existent”.
From what I have read so far on this forum how was it possible for the Garrard test department to say that when I’ve read so much to the contrary?
Some context here - the 301 was launched in 1955 or thereabouts, when Thorens were still selling a gear-driven turntable for LP use. Against the prevailing standrads, rumble was virtually non-existent, particularly as this was pre-stereo. Rumble is far more troublesome in stereo, partly because more rumble is generated in the vertical plane as a rule and partly because it is spatially separated from other sounds on the disc - this also applies to pressing faults.

Garrard didn't help themselves by specifying a spring mounted piece of plywood as the motor board - Dad made a plinth along these lines when updating his system for stereo, and it didn't work too well, either from the rumble or the acoustic feedback point of view.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 5:22 pm   #22
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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From what I have read so far on this forum how was it possible for the Garrard test department to say that when I’ve read so much to the contrary?
General non-specific marketing claims like "Washes whiter!" are just assumed to be expected and unsubstantiated. "Nothing acts faster" "All known germs"

It is assumed that superlatives just wash off the audience's back (no detergents needed!) and trades descriptions act etc never come into play.

Sometimes these claims are hilarious.

"Quantum leap" reverses its meaning when you know the meaning of the word quantum.

One car advert called itself the ultimate driving machine. Ultimate means final. Do they mean it will kill you?

With manufacturer's documentation it is important to detect which bits were written by the marketeers, which by the engineers. It is also important to pay a lot of attention to exactly what they don't say...

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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 6:10 pm   #23
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

One maker (face cream maybe?) claimed 'nothing works better!' And that is probably absolutely true .
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 9:10 pm   #24
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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I believe that the BBC took the 'huge concrete block' approach with Garrard idler decks but that's hardly a practical solution in the average domestic living room.
My 301, before I sold it in preference for a belt dive, was mounted on a cast concrete plinth. I made a mould and cast it myself, took 2 attempts but was very effective, weighed a ton of course.

Peter
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 12:44 am   #25
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

My TT features a Garrard 401 platter externally driven on a concrete plinth. Very effective but I thought hard about where to put it....as I don't want to have to pick it up again!!
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 8:33 am   #26
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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... Not ever owning a Garrard 301 or 401 could someone give me a few tips on what I should be looking out for, before I decide to buy one, thank you.
Unless they are a very good price and in very good physical condition or you love constant 'fettling' (rater than enjoying) do not bother.

I've had a few and always wanted to like them, but you really can never quite get them quiet enough. Solid plinths, good rubber, perfect bearings, the whole piece.
And once you know they are there, it is hard not to focus on the short comings, but you will not know if it bothers you until you try one either...
Alan
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 9:28 am   #27
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

They do look good, though.

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Old 24th Mar 2019, 2:30 am   #28
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

Having gone through the "digital" modification, with a few different AM radio stations, I picked up several 401's for nothing. AM stations insisted on CD players rather than vinyl. I then proceeded to replace many CD players that were not worth repairing after only some months or perhaps a year or two of service. A bonus to this was that the vinyl collection was also not required, so I managed to collect some of those too.
But seriously if you can get a 301/401 for the right price, make a decent plinth, find a SME arm, you will have bling that is pretty hard to beat. Remember my warning though!!. A modern turntable will beat the 401, apart of course, for the cheap and nasty plastic bits that seem to adorn many, many of the cheaper belt drives, and in some cases the direct drives.
Ohh I didnt mention, I still use a Shure V15 that used to me MR ( Micro Ridge stylus) but today is just an elliptical as the MR series stlii are no longer available.

Joe
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 5:55 am   #29
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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Having gone through the "digital" modification, with a few different AM radio stations, I picked up several 401's for nothing.
Similar here - I asked a contact at a nationwide network about turntables when they were clearing out a storage area. He said they might have a couple of old ones.

Two boxes with five and a half (the half had no platter) 401s and two SME3009s turned up a couple of weeks later.

Sold the worst 2.5 401s (no platter, broken control knobs etc) for around $1,300 all up - yes they go for silly money even when you're honest about them being stuffed, bought a ProJect 1xpression Carbon, 78 RPM pully and stylus, and a Spin-Clean, and had about $100 left over. And three 401s. And two 3009s
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 8:50 am   #30
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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Originally Posted by John10b View Post
Just finished reading the Garrard 301 Instructions, thanks to Ray, i note it says “should be mounted on Wooden Plynth”, and it’s test report says “rumble almost non existent”.
From what I have read so far on this forum how was it possible for the Garrard test department to say that when I’ve read so much to the contrary?
Cheers
John
Mine is in a teak veneered particle board plinth. However it is heavily damped with 1cm bitumastic damping panels on every surface underneath, held in place with liquid Aquaseal. All corners are also reinforced with 1cm wooden batons. It is heavy and dead. So you can use a wooden plinth, it's just a question of using damping as well, or as appropriate.
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 12:18 pm   #31
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

Seven posts moved here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=155180
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Old 25th Mar 2019, 1:50 pm   #32
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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Originally Posted by snowman_al View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by John10b View Post
... Not ever owning a Garrard 301 or 401 could someone give me a few tips on what I should be looking out for, before I decide to buy one, thank you.
Unless they are a very good price and in very good physical condition or you love constant 'fettling' (rater than enjoying) do not bother.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with this! I've had my 301 for over 25 years and in that time it has had one bearing upgrade courtesy of Martin Bastin and a yearly clean and oil of the main bearing. It's mounted in a solid wood plinth with standard rubber feet and does not rumble. I've never had to 'constantly fettle' it.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 10:27 am   #33
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

I have a 301 which is fired up on rare occasions, mounted in a wooden cabinet. Never detected any rumble. Only 'servicing' its had is the occasional removal of surface dust!
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 10:51 am   #34
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

I've never owned one, and constantly kick myself for not getting a good 'un for less than £200 that was offered to me not that many years ago.
I have heard one or 4 over the years and I never detected any "rumble" etc when an LP was playing.
I'd still like to own one but it's unlikely to happen. I just think they are an icon of the classic vinyl era and the fact so many are still out there and playing must say something about the quality of the engineering in the original product?

Personally I am very very happy with my now becoming venerable Michell GyroSE/rega arm compination which although expensive at just over £1000 for the ex display model in the shop 15 years ago, is still working as well as the day I got it and all I have spent on the deck is a drop of oil for the bearing which is a 10 minute job once a year to clean and oilchange and a replacement drive belt.
Simple, with to me great looks,to others weird, but theres nowt on it that doesnt need to be there.
I can hear the intakes of breath from some quarters at the seemingly high price I paid, but I have every confidence that it will still be working when I am pushing up the daisies and that won't be for a couple of decades at least yet I hope!

I also recently picked up a cosmetically tatty but mechanically perfect Rega P7 which with a day spent polishing the scratches out of the perspex lid and a good clean and fettle now looks pretty good and works very well indeed. I like the push button electronic speed change on these decks too. I'd say it's on a par with the Michell and much more user friendly, but needs to be on a good support, ideally a wall shelf. Which I'd recommend for any decent turntable setup anyway.

Sorry if i dragged it a bit OT mods feel free to edit out any non relevant words.

A.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 11:48 am   #35
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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I've never owned one, and constantly kick myself for not getting a good 'un for less than £200 that was offered to me not that many years ago.
Not as much as I kick myself for declining a boxed 301 at a jumble sale in the late 1980s for... 50p
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 4:06 pm   #36
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

Not quite in the same league (!) but I once -- when I was young and had no sense -- turned down a Collaro Conquest changer mounted in a nice plinth and with an Acos stereo cartridge fitted, because I thought there was an important part missing .....
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 5:36 pm   #37
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

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Not as much as I kick myself for declining a boxed 301 at a jumble sale in the late 1980s for... 50p
Or me for binning one because it had a broken switch lever.
In defence it was rescued as scrap before they were iconic. It was also before recycling was the planet friendly course of action, so it's probably quietly rotting away somewhere.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 6:19 pm   #38
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

If it does turn out to be silly money, I'd recommend looking at the Lenco/Goldring-Lenco range from the L/GL59 onwards if you'd like an idler-drive turntable from the same period. There's a good forum at Lenco Heaven and the consensus is that the enormously heavy platter of the Lenco offerings makes them easily comparable to the Garrards but at a small fraction of the price the latter command. I have a GL59 that I've fixed up and have no complaints. The magic of the infinitely variable speed lever between 16 and 78rpm is great engineering fun too.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 6:23 pm   #39
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

Five days ago now, wondering if you've been back yet? If it were me, and given the chance that this may be one almighty bargain, I wouldn't have left it long before going back to collect my spoils. Just don't want you to miss out on a bargain, if only to resell it.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 7:30 pm   #40
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Default Re: Garrard 301/401

We are hoping to do a bit of shopping this weekend, I know which shop I’ll head for!
Cheers
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