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Old 21st May 2021, 8:56 pm   #1
greenstar
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Default Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Hi Folks,
I have an antique medical induction coil that seems a mystery to date. I got this as it looked very early, and I am fascinated by early electrics.
At first I thought it may be home made, but then I saw another very similar one at a car boot sale, and another on ebay. They appear to use a wet silver chloride cell, which were used with medical coils from the 1870's. Later coils used dry silver chloride, I think.
What I thought was out of place is that beneath the panel of mine, connections are made onto pins set in the wood, and are soldered.
I had assumed that electrical connections were first soldered in the 1920's, as everything earlier tends to be connected by terminals.
Does anyone know when soldering was first used in electrics?
The first two pics below of my own, the others of an ebay example showing the wet cell.
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Old 21st May 2021, 9:32 pm   #2
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Soldering was known to the ancient Romans, though not of course for electrical purposes.
Soldering was known to the early Victorians for plumbing, for gas supply pipes, and for making silver tableware.

It therefore seems a reasonable supposition that electrical connections were sometimes soldered from the beginning of the electrical age.

Prior to the general adoption of the ELECTRIC soldering iron, and flux cored wire solder, soldered joints were less common since they involved a lot more time and trouble than is the case today.

The first transatlantic telegraph cables involved soldered joints long before electric lighting etc.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 6:51 am   #3
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Could you post a picture of the actual soldered pins please?
I occured to me that perhaps a mechanical joint was used when made, perhaps even just wrapping the wire round a post, and the joint was then soldered later when the original became unreliable.
Just a thought.

Peter
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Old 22nd May 2021, 11:56 am   #4
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Somewhere I have a old soldering iron that my dad and his brother used in the 1930s.
Just heating it in the coal fire. I believe it’s Infact it’s a fair bit older than that .
Andy
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Old 22nd May 2021, 1:14 pm   #5
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

I was taught in school metalwork classes how to use a soldering iron that was heated in a flame.
A gas ring, a bunsen burner, a Primus stove, a spirit lamp, or a small and portable charcoal brazier were likely heat sources for regular use in a workplace. For the odd domestic repair, the kitchen fire had the advantage of costing nothing.

Gas soldering irons also existed, and still do ! More applicable to heavy electrical work and lead roofing than to electronics.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 1:19 pm   #6
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadgage View Post
Gas soldering irons also existed, and still do ! More applicable to heavy electrical work and lead roofing than to electronics.
We had small portable ones when I was in the R&TV servicing trade.

Lawrence.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 2:15 pm   #7
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

I have told this tale before... I fixed a TV using a blob of solder found next to a recent plumbing job and a screwdriver heated in a gas stove. It was a 12" BW portable with the usual LOPT (Llne out put transformer) cracked dry joints.
 
Old 22nd May 2021, 2:37 pm   #8
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Given the age profile of the forum members revealed in the recent poll, I would have thought a significant proportion would have used a soldering iron heated on the gas-ring in their younger days! I certainly used one growing up in the 50s before acquiring the ubiquitous 25-watt Solon iron in the 60s, and they were still used at school in the 60s to make little tinplate boxes in the 'woodwork' class.

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Old 22nd May 2021, 2:45 pm   #9
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

The small portable ones we had back in the 1980's were very much similar to this:

https://docs.rs-online.com/dceb/0900766b8001ad83.pdf

Lawrence.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 2:52 pm   #10
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Really, my query was to ask when soldering was first used with electrical work, so far as people know. Before I found this device, everything I had seen before 1920 had terminals to clamp the wires. So either my coil isn't original, or soldered connections were used pre 1900, and I think it is as old as that. Soldering was used by amateurs in the 20's, but many sets were entirely terminals then.
Peter, I will add a photo of the joints. I was a bit reluctant to take it apart again, after spending a while going over all the fixings!
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Old 22nd May 2021, 3:01 pm   #11
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Quote:
Really, my query was to ask when soldering was first used with electrical work
The thread has drifted a bit, to answer the question. As soldering is much older than electrics I reckon from day one, for permanent things or joining wires at least. Tinsmiths and plumbers were soldering with lead/tin alloy tallow flux well before electricity was used.
 
Old 22nd May 2021, 4:29 pm   #12
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
As soldering is much older than electrics I reckon from day one, for permanent things or joining wires at least.
Indeed. The Oxford English Dictionary includes quotes, with a wide variety of spellings, dating back to 1374 for "solder" defined as "A fusible metallic alloy used for uniting metal surfaces or parts". Perhaps the earliest clearly electrical use given there is from 1769: "I then soddered the wires of each jar to the rod which connected them".

Paul
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Old 22nd May 2021, 6:10 pm   #13
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

The engraved illustration of the inside of the Blakey and Emmott telephone of 1881 in the book "Vintage Telephones of the World" (first to be supplied to the Post Office) show what definitely look like soldered joints for the wired connections to the mic transformer, although the other visible joints are held by screws.
Connections in some of the WW1 items I have use solder tags similar to modern ones.
Mike.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 8:26 pm   #14
greenstar
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Thanks, Mike especially. I wondered if, circuitry being simpler, and construction being basic and substantial, terminals might have been the sole method. Here are some photos of the soldering. It has clearly had repairs, which have been repaired, including my own messy soldering. But some pins seem unaltered, and were surely soldered - a wire wrapped around would not have been secure.

It looks, with the probable use of a wet silver chloride cell, that the coil may have been late 19C, maybe even 70s-80s, as later ones have dry silver chloride cells. No sign of manufacturer marks.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 10:05 pm   #15
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Thanks for posting pictures of the inside.
I refer back to my post (No 3), the joints look like they were twisted / wrapped before being soldered. I still think the soldering may have been done later.

Peter
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Old 22nd May 2021, 11:41 pm   #16
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Are you sure the pins/nails weren't originally just supports for "through" connecting wires?
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Old 23rd May 2021, 8:57 am   #17
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

Soldering dates back to ancient times and has been used by silversmiths, goldsmiths, coppersmiths and all sorts of artisans over the centuries; it is fair to assume that soldering was used from the early days of electronics.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 10:23 am   #18
greenstar
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Default Re: Medical machine - when was soldering first used?

It is hard to see what is original on the thing. I suppose the wires could have been simply twisted around, but as the pins have no heads I can't see how this could be secure. Herald, I don't see the point of that - if wires were passing through, why would they need supports? One wire does pass through at a pin, but the other pins seem to be there to facilitate joining wires.
I think I'm satisfied now that the pins are original, and possibly were soldered to the wiring.
I feel embarrassed at my soldering! It looks worse in the photos. It was tricky as I had to hold both wood panels and solder simultaneously, which risked breaking further connections, plus i wanted to preserve all the older wires. I can do better.
Need to do more work on it and see if I can get it running.
I do realise soldering goes back to the bronze age, probably. Although they used a lot of rivets.
Wikipaedia says 'There is evidence that soldering was employed as early as 5,000 years ago in Mesopotamia. Soldering and brazing are thought to have originated very early in the history of metal-working, probably before 4000 BC. Sumerian swords from c. 3000 BC were assembled using hard soldering'.
However, many early electrical devices did use entirely terminals and nuts and bolts for connections, so it can't be assumed solder was used.
The pins on this device are small, so soldering with a non electric iron , bars of solder and separate flux must have been a demanding operation.
I am thinking that Peter's suggestion that the pins simply held wires in place, that took a turn about them, rather than their having originally been soldered, is a strong possibility, BUT, the wiring also appears to have been joined by other soldered joints, as for those from the induction coil. Wires come through from the top, and are twisted/soldered to it, as for the two lower pins in the photo.
I'll just have to contemplate it and consider what the original assembly involved.
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