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Old 30th Oct 2020, 10:01 pm   #81
Rich400
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Hi again Edward
Yes that seems quite a relevant issue, see post 1, 11 and 23.
I am hoping to get those other transformers checked for chassis isolation as soon as I have resolved the deck issues, so will report back then.

Many thanks

Richard

Last edited by Rich400; 30th Oct 2020 at 10:15 pm.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 11:44 am   #82
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Ok so here goes I thought I would post a few photos of the deck coming out for me to check through. It does not move, and I have no experience of record decks so we will see!
I have included a shot of a capacitor on board, possibly for safety isolation but will check through things as I go along.
Regards
Richard
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 11:50 am   #83
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

As above, dining room workbench...
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 3:46 pm   #84
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

These pre-Plessey deks are quite complex. Suggest you download the Manual and study the many threads on autochangers on the landing page on this site.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 5:10 pm   #85
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

What exactly do you mean by "landing page"?

Can you provide a link please.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 5:41 pm   #86
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

My understanding of a "Landing Page " is that is when you go to the "Vintage Audio" section of this site, the landing page shows you everything that's on there, including (and in this case) the full schedule of Stickys. If I'm wrong, I stand to be corrected
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 6:31 pm   #87
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Interesting stuff here with this Garrard 121 mk2.
When I pulled it apart the speed control had seized solid.
I carefully stripped it out and found that the reason for the seizure was the lubrication that was intended to keep it free.
I cleaned with alcohol and reassembled with fresh lubricant, synthetic this time.
Good news! The turntable now spins nicely, so I re installed it into the gram, just to see where things were.
What I am seeing is that it thinks there are still records to play and ends up playing, reaching the end, the arm returns but instead of lowering and switching off, it thinks there is another record to play and the autochanger goes to drop another record (without there being one) and it resumes to play again.
I would say whatever is telling it there is another record needs adjusting or repairing. As it uses a sensing arm to decide what size record to play this is doing its job but for some reason it’s not getting the message to stop.
Any help would be much welcomed.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 6:35 pm   #88
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

The last record is detected by the overarm which drops to its lowest position.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 6:42 pm   #89
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Hi Graham
Many thanks for that, I take it there is a micro switch or similar or would this be mechanical?
I will leave it where it is for tonight, but glad to see it spin!
Regards
Richard

Edit: just found this will check tomorrow

The shut off problem is caused by the size sensing arm not going far enough in to tell the mechanism there are no more records to play. (This changer does not rely on overarm position) If at the end of the record, you put your finger lightly on top of the clear plastic bit at the end of the record sizer, and, when it seems to have reached its full inwards travel, just push it a bit further, you should find the arm behaves as it should. It's all down to lubrication, and seeing which bits are involved when the changer cycles.

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Old 31st Oct 2020, 7:05 pm   #90
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

I got it wrong then. Sorry.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 7:09 pm   #91
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
My understanding of a "Landing Page " is that is when you go to the "Vintage Audio" section of this site, the landing page shows you everything that's on there, including (and in this case) the full schedule of Stickys. If I'm wrong, I stand to be corrected
It would really help us all if you posted links Edward. I'll do it for you once again;-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...splay.php?f=14
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 7:10 pm   #92
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

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I got it wrong then. Sorry.
Please don’t apologise, it great to have support thankyou
Richard

I have just tried it and it works! I’m not sure which piece needs cleaning and lubricating though I thought I’d done it all!
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 1:37 pm   #93
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Very pleased to report back that the deck is now fully functional with only a slight hesitation in deck speed at 16RPM.
I have heard so many bad things about this deck, and I am pleasantly surprised.
Now it’s serviced the tone arm has negligible (swing?) resistance and no discernible increase when at the end, initiating the switch off cycle.
The stack function works correctly as does the auto sizing arm, so no landing on the platter due to incorrect disc sizing anymore!
Of course I have yet to set up the tracking weight etc, but it seems to track well whatever the settings are currently...
I do not feel I can connect it to the amp yet as this would present 240v at the tone arm, so it will be nice to move on and modify the chassis once I can concentrate on its updating.
And of course hear this deck perform.
Regards
Richard
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 7:22 pm   #94
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Been playing the now operational Garrard 121 today but unfortunately as I’m loading them into the autochanger one at a time one of my 78’s has cracked.
It may have had a fault before but they do seem to drop fast.
Can this be adjusted to slow the fall?
I thought the damper was an air cushion but this does not seem to play out with these heavy 78’s.
I have refurbished the original garrard rubber mat and it seems ok but I can’t think it was ever much of a cushion.

Richard
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 7:49 pm   #95
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

The fall is purely by gravity so 9.81 metres per second squared it has to be. The only thing touching the record on the way down is the spindle and any attempt to make friction will jam other records.

78s have to be relegated to single play.

Vinyl 12" jobs seem to do a ground effect buffer on falling, 7 inchers just seem to say "bring it on"

DAvid
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 7:55 pm   #96
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

7” singles used to have some ‘teeth’ around the label so that a stack of them would not slip.

Sorry to hear about the 78 - hope it was not disc nn of a 20 disc symphony recording.

The BBC used to have machines that could play multiple 78’s seamlessly - I think they had special pressings that did not have consecutive sides on the same disc.
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 9:04 pm   #97
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
The fall is purely by gravity so 9.81 metres per second squared it has to be. The only thing touching the record on the way down is the spindle and any attempt to make friction will jam other records.

78s have to be relegated to single play.

Vinyl 12" jobs seem to do a ground effect buffer on falling, 7 inchers just seem to say "bring it on"

DAvid
Hi again David
Ignoring 9.81 per second per second acceleration due to gravity it’s the terminal velocity that is of concern! Also no ground effect either I’m afraid, increased efficiency of lift is not helping things with this descent!

I have a DJ friend who specialises in 30’s 78’s and he always stacks these on his vintage gram without damage so I believe this is solvable. I was hoping for an adjustment but it may be a more cushioned mat, a real dilemma!
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Old 1st Nov 2020, 9:08 pm   #98
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

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Sorry to hear about the 78 - hope it was not disc nn of a 20 disc symphony recording.
Hi again Richard
It was an original moonlight serenade (Glenn Miller) and it’s very disappointing.

I’m sure I’ll find another though.
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Old 2nd Nov 2020, 6:36 pm   #99
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

I have 1000s of 78s and regularly play them on auto changers and have never had one break, even cracked ones have survived the drop though often it causes the crack to be more obvious with one side ending up higher than the other. I suspect that unfortunately the record was already cracked and the drop finished it off. I bought a copy of Moonlight Serenade off eBay last year so you should be able to get another copy
Steve
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Old 2nd Nov 2020, 7:15 pm   #100
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Default Re: Adding a selectable line input to valve radiogram

Agreed Steve. Over the past 60 odd years I have played just about all types of 78's on just about every type of autochanger known to man and have never had one actually damage a 78.

Generally I would say that an autochanger is probably kinder to records than a rather heavy handed manual user.

I have just overhauled a Garrard RC111 changer in a Decca '98' radiogram. It is very gentle and smooth and a credit to the old Garrard company. I also have respect for the range of BSR changers from their first model in 1953.

None of these are really suitable for playing good quality stereo LPs but are very capable of excellent results from 78s, 45s and mono LPs. Regards, John.
PS My Garrard RC65A is at the present time happily playing a stack of Glenn Miller and Artie Shaw.
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