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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 20th Dec 2011, 11:50 am   #81
brenellic2000
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Ricard,

All manufacturers adopted model codes to ensure the right components went to the right deck on the production line (look under your car's bonnet)!

Truvox, for example, had a host of model numbers - such as for their R1 model - which indentified the voltage, mains frequency and special features.

The RE1 - RE7 were fitted with time-used plates while the RE11 - RE17 had digital tape counters; within these ranges were RE15 UK, 240v, but the RE 16 was 115v 50Hz export.

'R' indicated a tape recorder while 'D' was tape transport and 'PD' a deck with pre-amp!

Barry
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Old 20th Dec 2011, 12:43 pm   #82
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

To answer one of the last questions first, I'll write something about model numbers:

EL was a prefix exclusively used by the ELectro acoustics department for their (mostly professional) designs. Tapedecks and cassette recorders weren't in the same product group as consumer audio products (even though they were produced by the consumer goods factories) until some internal reshuffeling within Philips. After that consumer decks were assigned the letter N (no idea why) while professional products (at the same or some other point in time) got three-letter designations such as LBB, LDH, etc.

The numbers are not exactly random, even though I haven't figured out what each digit stands for. The first digit seems to indicate a product group (EL3 - audio recorders of all sorts, N1 - videorecorders, N2 - cassette recorders, N4 - open reel, N5 - hifi?). Traditionally in many other Philips products, one digit indicates luxury class, another digit indicates model year (3 for 1963 and so on, repeats every 10 years). It should be possible to find out if such a numbering scheme was used in cassette recorders as well, even though I haven't really looked at it (figuring out Philips will take a lifetime to do it properly, or so it seems).

It was suggested that a letter A or G behind a model number could indicate where the product was designed or manufactured. This could be the case in this particular example, but a letter in this position is usually used to indicate a newer or modified version of the basic model and need not correspond with one particular country or factory.

Then follows the / and two digits, named stroke number, execution number or destination number in various Philips documents. Those digits are nowadays almost exclusively used to indicate the destination country or region but in earlier years were also used to indicate different versions (other cosmetical finish in earlier equipment, slightly different features, add 50 for a technically different set, etc.). Also the exact meaning of the numbers changed with time and even with product group. Unfortunately, before ~1990 this wasn't always explained properly in the service manuals, so a lot of comparing would be needed to figure out the exact meaning for each apparatus.

Finally the letter that sometimes comes after the stroke number. In general it was used to indicate the cosmetic finish of the product (different wood, different colour plastic, different knobs, etc) but sometimes it indicated a (slightly or completely) different internal design.

Also, a mostly unrelated numbering scheme (quite possibly several different schemes over the years) existed for non-philips brands (AMEA = Andere MErken Activiteiten = Other Brands Activities) such as Stella, Aristona, Erres, Hornyphon, Mediator, Dux, SBR. The Elizabethan model number seems to fit in, even though Elizabethan wasn't in any way related to Philips (as far as I know, that is).

Next post I'll write about determining which factory made what, unless there's some discussion and additions to the model numbers.

Actually I'm always keen on receiving more information and feedback on this subject.

Last edited by Maarten; 20th Dec 2011 at 1:09 pm.
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 2:46 pm   #83
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

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Originally Posted by brenellic2000 View Post
What do you know of 'Incis', perhaps one of Italy's largest tape-decks maker who began with open-reel and, I believe, later cassettes and more modern recording technology mostly branded for other companies; very little is recorded of Inics.
Excuse me, I've been busy at work these days, I have some schematics for Incis recorders, please tell me if you need any detailed information.

I enjoyed the Google translation for my article, some part of it is good. What I meant for "sessantottino" is a way we have to refer to the generation born around 1950, that was supposedly active during the 1968/1977 protest ...

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Old 21st Dec 2011, 2:55 pm   #84
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
The numbers are not exactly random, even though I haven't figured out what each digit stands for. The first digit seems to indicate a product group (EL3 - audio recorders of all sorts, N1 - videorecorders, N2 - cassette recorders, N4 - open reel, N5 - hifi?). Traditionally in many other Philips products, one digit indicates luxury class, another digit indicates model year (3 for 1963 and so on, repeats every 10 years). It should be possible to find out if such a numbering scheme was used in cassette recorders as well, even though I haven't really looked at it (figuring out Philips will take a lifetime to do it properly, or so it seems).
With the N tape machine numbers, the second digit indicates whether the unit was mono or stereo and whether it was a recorder (with built in speaker amplifier) or a deck (with only line level outputs). Off the top of my head, 2 = mono recorder, 4 = stereo recorder and 5 = stereo deck.

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Old 21st Dec 2011, 2:57 pm   #85
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Hello Marco,

I'm particlurarly interested in the history of Incis, and the two brothers who ran it, as two or three British tape recorders used Incis decks, some of which were built by Incis to British requirements.

Barry
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 5:45 pm   #86
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Hi Barry,

just after Christmas i'm going to meet Mr Carlo Pria, who is in my opinion the most qualified Italian radio industry historian, and has literally lots of documentation. I'll ask him about Incis, for sure, and let you know.
The site is www.aireradio.org (there is a forum there, and I run the HiFi section). He doesn't speak English.

Last edited by MarcoBerti; 21st Dec 2011 at 5:52 pm.
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Old 22nd Dec 2011, 11:22 am   #87
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Thanks Marco; you may find it easier to PM me. Meantime, Happy Christmas!

Barry
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Old 25th Dec 2011, 8:51 pm   #88
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Thanks james for more information on the N-model number scheme.

Now as I promised, sorry for the delay, something about the production codes. The letters AH, WR, etc. are the letters on separate stickers, in front of revision numbers, date codes or even in front of serial numbers (later models). They should not be confused with the starting letters of pre-12NC article codes as found on some parts or on the silk screen or copper layer of some PCBs.

Those codes indicate the factory in which the set (or sometimes subassembly or part) was produced. The 2 digit number behind it indicates a revision level, so that the repairman can get the right documentation including change sheets. The revision number is per-factory, so a recorder marked AH03 doesn't necessarily include the same factory changes as one sporting WR03. Behind or beneath this, a 3 number date code can often be found. There was some overlap, but the earlier format tended to be WWY while during the sixties and early seventies the format changed to YWW and later to YYWW.

Some of the most relevant factory letters are:

1A bought in general audio
A Philips Netherlands
AH Philips Hasselt, Belgium (sometimes marked: Made in Holland)
BA Philips UK
DD Philips Dendermonde, Belgium (speakers)
E Philips Netherlands (early)
FF bought in
FK Philips Finland
H Philips Hasselt, Belgium (early)
LF Philips Flers, France
NF Philips Norrköping, Sweden
PL Philips Leuven, Belgium (sometimes marked: Made in Holland)
W Philips (Johan de Witt) Dordrecht, Netherlands (motors and precision mechanical parts)
WA Philips Wetzlar, Germany
WD Philips (Horny?) Wien, Austria
WR Philips (Wiener Radiowerke) Wien, Austria
WT Philips Wien, Austria

This list is by no means near complete. I only mentioned the letters that I think can be encountered in tape recording equipment. Don't hesitate to ask or make suggestions.
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Old 25th Dec 2011, 9:06 pm   #89
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

A small remark about 12NC article numbers (as Philips introduced between 1963 and 1967) also found on many parts, especially on the silk screen or copper layers of PCBs.

The 3rd and 4th digits often (but not in service manuals between ~1964 and ~2000) indicate the country of original design, as follows:

03 = Austria
04 = Belgium
12 = Germany
13 = UK
22 = Holland
31 = Sweden
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Old 26th Dec 2011, 7:54 am   #90
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Many will be surprised by the number of factories that Philips had around the world, pre-war. The reason is explained in Anton Philips' biography, 'Anton Philips' - it is one of the only histories of the company... but not alas its individual products. Never the less, it is well worth getting and reading.

So your New Year's Resolution is ... buy a copy!

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Old 26th Dec 2011, 9:27 am   #91
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

First of all, thanks for the information on manufacturing location codes; I had no idea the code actually indicated where the equipment was made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
This list is by no means near complete. I only mentioned the letters that I think can be encountered in tape recording equipment. Don't hesitate to ask or make suggestions.
I have some fairly early Philips consumer recorders, the mid-50's EL3510 and EL3520, where the revision code is prefixed by 'PW', e.g. PW 01. What country (if any) does that indicate?

Also, what are '12NC' article numbers, are they the 12-digit numbers encountered more and more as the 60's progressed (often interspaced with spaces at certain places)?
Quote:
AH Philips Hasselt, Belgium (sometimes marked: Made in Holland)
How come they were marked as Made in Holland when they were actually made in Belgium?
Quote:
Behind or beneath this, a 3 number date code can often be found. There was some overlap, but the earlier format tended to be WWY while during the sixties and early seventies the format changed to YWW and later to YYWW.
All Philips reel-to-reels I have that are made in Vienna (WR code) seem to have YY WW as far back as I can tell, i.e. I have an EL3547 from 1962 which is marked WR 04 62 45, i.e. it already is in the form YY WW .

Last edited by ricard; 26th Dec 2011 at 9:34 am.
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Old 26th Dec 2011, 11:13 am   #92
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

I've been away from this topic for a while and I'm so grateful that there's been some very useful information provided by Maarten, Ricard, & Brenellic, just to name a few.

But thanks also goes to everyone else who've added info & comments and have kept the thread alive.

My file on the EL 33XX series is getting fatter and the additional data on the N series is also invaluable.

Cheers guys,

Tony
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Old 27th Dec 2011, 2:08 am   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricard View Post
I have some fairly early Philips consumer recorders, the mid-50's EL3510 and EL3520, where the revision code is prefixed by 'PW', e.g. PW 01. What country (if any) does that indicate?
Good thing you mention this again, I was meaning to ask you about it. I haven't ever encountered the letters PW on a tape deck, but I did on a record player that was supposedly made by Philips Berlin, Germany. Are there any indications on your decks that they could be made in Germany? Indications such as the brands of parts used (Valvo on valves and electrolytics, Wima or ERO on paper capacitors, etc) and the factory codes on motors and transformers (transformers for German equipment tend to be made in Wetzlar, having a factory code WA and possibly an article code prefix WE)

Quote:
Also, what are '12NC' article numbers, are they the 12-digit numbers encountered more and more as the 60's progressed (often interspaced with spaces at certain places)?
That's right. It seems they were introduced around 1963 and exclusively in use by 1968.

Quote:
How come they were marked as Made in Holland when they were actually made in Belgium?
That's a good question, and I don't have a clue on that. Could have something to do with marketing, I suppose, as on some Leuven-made speaker boxes and radios had the "Made in Holland" printed on the back in very prominent letters.[quote]

Quote:
All Philips reel-to-reels I have that are made in Vienna (WR code) seem to have YY WW as far back as I can tell, i.e. I have an EL3547 from 1962 which is marked WR 04 62 45, i.e. it already is in the form YY WW .
Adoption of this format apparently differed a bit between factories. Vienna may have been the first or one of the first.

Last edited by Maarten; 27th Dec 2011 at 2:16 am.
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Old 27th Dec 2011, 10:38 am   #94
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

One possible answer to "Made in Holland" when it was 'made' in Belgium is that final assembly (no matter how little) before sale was carried out in Holland.

This was, and remains, a very common ploy to avoid/reduce import tarrifs, particularly in the pre-1960s and post 1960s EFTA/EEC trade. Belgium and Luxembourg (both former parts of Holland/Nederlands) and Holland were 'The Benelux' Customs Union (they then formed the EEC with Germany, France and then Italy). While this tariff avoidance would not have applied between them, it may have had major advantages in other markets.

Barry
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 12:00 am   #95
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
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Good thing you mention this again, I was meaning to ask you about it. I haven't ever encountered the letters PW on a tape deck, but I did on a record player that was supposedly made by Philips Berlin, Germany. Are there any indications on your decks that they could be made in Germany? Indications such as the brands of parts used (Valvo on valves and electrolytics, Wima or ERO on paper capacitors, etc) and the factory codes on motors and transformers (transformers for German equipment tend to be made in Wetzlar, having a factory code WA and possibly an article code prefix WE).
I thought I'd come across the PW code in the EL3520 service manual, but checking through my documentation I cannot find that particular manual right now so will have to look more thoroughly and see if I can find it. However, in my (German) service manual for the EL3516 and 3522, the EL3522 is listed as having a couple of versions specified as EL 3522-PW 00 and EL3522-PW 01 which apparently differ in the lack of latch on the pause button on the PW 00 version. I don't have an EL3522 though so I don't know what it says on its type plate. The EL3522 is a machine I've only seen on the German eBay site so I think it was made exclusively for that market, so it could very well have been produced in Germany I suppose.

I also noticed that a lot of the parts in the parts list for the EL3522 were prefixed with PW.
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 1:24 am   #96
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Article code (part number) prefixes were not usually the same as factory letters as far as I observed, but this could certainly be one of the cases they actually were.

Actually, the pre-12NC part code prefixes are somewhat further down the "round tuit" list but that doesn't mean I'm not open to new information about those.
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 10:17 am   #97
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

I wonder if there now is any time reasonably accurate time brackets worked out for production periods of the variants of the EL33xx? The earliest EL3302 which is an EL3302A I have seen, dates it back to 1967. Must go back earlier than that. The EL3300 goes back to 1963 but only encountered the one going back to 1964. Is there a date when production ceased? I'm guessing about 1974?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 8:21 am   #98
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

I got one when I was doing my O-Levels, which was in 1977 - probably from Currys. It was one of the last ones from memory.
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Old 4th Jun 2012, 2:57 am   #99
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

I'm reviving this as I just found an interesting variant/use of the EL3300 - as fitted into this Spanish manufacture Vica radiogram! I like the clever way they got round the side-on mounted pots by installing a separate rec level control - same goes for the mic jack!

The unit is almost certainly an EL3302 (rectangular rec key and perspex smoked lid). Note they carefully avoid mentioning 'stereo ' and 'cassette' too closely!
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Old 6th Jun 2012, 11:30 pm   #100
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Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Excellent!
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