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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 4th Jun 2017, 8:37 pm   #1
kidamazo
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Default Uher 4000 Report L output question

Hello, new to the forum, happy to be here.

I inherited my father's Uher 4000 Report L, and I am trying to figure out if it is possible record from the Uher to something like a laptop computer (using Audacity, for example) or a micro recorder inputing into the microphone jack. Is there some combination of adapters I can use, say, a 6-pin din to RCA to 3.5mm?

One concern is that currently made DIN connectors will not be mapped the same as the Uher.

Any suggestions for best results would greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Peter
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Old 4th Jun 2017, 10:19 pm   #2
julie_m
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

You should see an output signal on pin 3 of the 5-pin DIN socket (pin 2 is earth). It does not matter so much about the microphone input of a laptop being mono, since the signal from the Uher will only be mono anyway, but it will be too strong for the microphone input of a laptop computer.

You could use a 10kΩ and 100Ω resistor as a potential divider to attenuate the signal from the Uher suitably for feeding into a mic input (pin 3 of Uher to one end on 10kΩ; junction of 10kΩ and 100Ω to mic input; other end of 100Ω resistor to pin 2 of Uher and mic socket earth), but all this amplifying and attenuating just strikes me as a bit unhygienic. If your input is less sensitive in the first place, you need to pick up more noise for it to make a difference.

Personally, I'm a fan of USB audio input devices, as the analogue circuitry is all kept away from the digital circuitry on the motherboard -- which can introduce a particularly intrusive form of noise. But there's no harm trying the on-board sound anyway, in case yours works well enough.
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 7:17 pm   #3
barretter
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Julie_m is right, you can get a mono output from the 5-pin radio-phono DIN socket on the side of the machine. Any of the standard 5-pin DIN to phono leads you can buy for not a lot of money will give you an output on one of the phono plugs. If you want to go straight into a laptop's microphone input you can buy a phono-to-mini jack plug widget (see picture) and you can use Audacity to record the output from the Uher. You can set the input volume level quite easily with Audacity so you won't have to do any soldering.
But first of all make sure that the input on the laptop is a microphone input and not one for a combined headphone/microphone set. This requires a three-section plug and normal stereo mini-jacks won't work into it. Such a socket will have a virtually invisible symbol depicting a combined headphone-microphone set beside it. Generally speaking if you have a microphone input socket it will have an indistinguishable headphone output socket next to it.
If you have the wrong socket (as my Dell laptop does) you can resort to using something like a Behringer U-Control (UCA202 or UCA222 - not very expensive) which digitises the output from the Uher and inserts it into the laptop via a USB socket. The Audacity program will recognise the Behringer provided you insert its USB plug into the laptop before you turn the Audacity program on. The Behringer accepts its input from phono plugs so you don't have to buy the phono-socket to mini-jack widget.
First of all though, does the Uher work? It's fairly old by now and may need its electrolytic capacitors replacing.
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Old 5th Jun 2017, 8:42 pm   #4
kidamazo
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Thanks to you both. Yes, the jack is a combined headphone/Mic jack. I just ordered the Behringer and look forward to trying it out.

The unit works, but with some odd problems. For example, when recording with the microphone, pressing the mic key speeds up the motor, but leaving it alone the speed is normal. It is very, very noisy overall. Also, the recording level meter is stuck in one position.

Is it worth replacing the caps in any case, and is this something I can do with moderate hobbyist level skills?
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 12:31 am   #5
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Do you have any idea what is causing the machine to be "very, very noisy"? If the electrolytics are old and dried out the voltage to the circuit boards may be low which would cause distortion and eventually silence. If they say "Frako" on them I would replace them all. The circuit boards are quite accessible apart from the power-supply board which is under the top plate (see picture). For this one I wouldn't desolder the capacitor leads but cut them very close to the body of the capacitor and solder the leads of the new capacitor to the old leads (after cleaning them).
Another source of noise, unfortunately is the capstan roller. The rubber on the capstan which transfers the drive from the motor can get very hard and become the source of a lot of noise and distortion. A complete replacement is expensive but it might be possible just to replace the rubber. I believe there is a firm in the USA called Terry's rubber replacement who might be able to do it. Otherwise you are faced with buying a new component from Switzerland, which is never cheap!
Time for bed, but have a look inside the machine and tell us what you see.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 3:28 am   #6
TIMTAPE
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Just on the noise. If it's caused by the flywheel rubber ring gone hard, so long as the machine still maintains tape speed, the noise wont be in the Uher's electrical output, ie: in your digital recording.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 2:31 pm   #7
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

My experience with the hardening of the rubber is that it introduces wow.
Kidamazo, do you have any knowledge of electronics? Before you start removing any electrolytics remember that they are polarized, i.e. one end is positive and the other is negative and the replacements have to be soldered in in the same way. Sorry if this is insulting.
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Old 6th Jun 2017, 2:47 pm   #8
TIMTAPE
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Quote:
Originally Posted by barretter View Post
My experience with the hardening of the rubber is that it introduces wow.
Quite: failure to maintain tape speed... but...all we've been told is that it's "very, very noisy overall". We still dont know for sure what is causing the noise.
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Old 7th Jun 2017, 12:43 am   #9
kidamazo
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

The noise sounds like it is the from motor, which is loud even when not turning.

So I bought the Behringer and hooked it up, but it doesn't seem to be working. I have attached photos of the cable I am using. Could it be the port on the Uher is bad?

And yes, I have basic electronic knowledge, could replace caps if necessary.
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Old 7th Jun 2017, 12:23 pm   #10
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

What you have there is a combined input/output lead. I would guess that the output from the Uher is on one of the blue or yellow leads. If you insert both of those into the Behringer, insert some headphones into the headphone socket of the Behringer, plug the USB plug into the laptop and then play a tape you ought to hear sound in one of the headphone speakers. If that doesn't work try the white and red. If there is no output from either set of leads you have a problem either with the leads or with the Uher output. You can check the leads with the continuity function on a multimeter.
It could be that you are not choosing the correct microphone input on the Audacity program (see picture). As I said you must insert the Behringer's USB plug into the laptop before opening Audacity ; otherwise Audacity will not "see" the Behringer output.
I don't understand what you mean by saying that the motor makes a noise even when it's not turning. Is this with the volume control turned right down?
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 3:01 pm   #11
kidamazo
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Thanks. I tested the leads and they are working, but the Behringer is not. So I am going to assume there is something wrong with the output. Appreciate everyone's help.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 7:45 pm   #12
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

I have worked on several Uher machines and one worked fine mechanically, moving the tape in play and fast forward and backward but produced no sound whatsoever. This turned out to be because one of the electrolytics on the main circuit board was a dead short and so there were no volts to power the board.
When you say the Behringer has no output, is this with it connected to the laptop, because that is its source of power?
Presumably you mean there is no output from the Uher. Is there any sound from the internal loudspeaker when you play a tape?
You supply so little detailed information that it is hard to know what you mean.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 8:50 pm   #13
julie_m
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

Many audio input devices have a software gain control which appears in your computer's sound settings while the device is connected. Check your settings and if there is such an extra control, make sure it is turned up. Some devices have a hardware gain control, either instead of or as well as the software one.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 11:11 pm   #14
kidamazo
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

I'm sorry if I am not being clear. Yes, the Behringer is hooked up the computer via its USB.

Here are some more details. The Uher records with a microphone and plays back what was recorded, and plays prerecorded tapes as well. It works on all speeds. It rewinds and fast forwards. All the basic functions seem to work, except that there is no output when I plug it in using the cable I provided images of to the Behringer (which is properly hooked up to the computer, etc.)

I will check the gain control on the computer.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 11:40 pm   #15
barretter
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

The Behringer UCA222/202 has neither a hardware nor a software volume control for the audio signal though it does have a volume control and on/off switch for the headphone/monitor socket but this has no effect on what is going into the computer.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 1:41 am   #16
TIMTAPE
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Default Re: Uher 4000 Report L output question

I know baretter mentioned this in post #3 but are you using the DIN socket on the side of the machine, not the mic socket on the front?
Also have you tested for signal on each of the four RCA plugs? The signal may only appear on one of them.

Last edited by TIMTAPE; 10th Jun 2017 at 1:46 am.
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