Nagra front plate restoration - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

jascha · 22nd May 2016, 9:17 am

Hi,

I have this Nagra 4S which sadly came to me with some front plate damage due to some spillage of some sort and some of the lettering faded away. there seems to be a film of some liquid which I have no idea what it is but I believe that this can be restored with the right chemicals to remove this stuff. I just hope it did not eat away the lettering underneath.
Any ideas please anyone on how to go about it? I had no luck so far trying to find a front plate to replace mine but there's always some hope especially if it can be all cleaned off.

Many thanks

Jascha

ricard · 22nd May 2016, 11:15 am

Is it the faded stripe starting over the U and part of the K in KUDELSKI and progressing downwards, over part of MONO, STEREO and LEVEL you mean?

It looks like a strip of thin semi-transparent tape in the image but perhaps that's not the case in reality?

jascha · 22nd May 2016, 11:21 am

Yes that's is what I am referring to. There are other sections on that plate that have been sadly affected by what I believe is a spillage of maybe battery acid. I bought it like that and had it serviced by the guru David Lane and it's in perfect working order and hence wish to sort out this problem. If anyone has any ideas or know where I can source a replacement front plate I would be most grateful and pleased.

Cheers

stevehertz · 22nd May 2016, 2:38 pm

The issue is, do the legends appear faded because the 'substance' (it's not a liquid any more) itself is opaque? or is the substance actually clear and the legends have become faded, as what would happen if they have been 'bleached' by the chemical? Because if it's the former, then yes if you can get the substance off without damaging the legends, they will be dark again. But if the legends themselves have become faded/bleached, then even if you can get the stuff off, the legends are intrinsically, faded. Can you not ascertain by looking closely to see which one it is?

jascha · 22nd May 2016, 2:45 pm

I am not an expert in this field but all I can say that this was a liquid spillage and left films in different areas that doesn't feel at all bumpy when I rub my finger or nail across them. I tried gently using a cotton swab with some isopropyl and I got the impression that by rubbing I was seeing the faded letters get darker, until I stopped rubbing. I live in hope. What could I try to use to try and clean it off?

Thanks

stevehertz · 22nd May 2016, 6:20 pm

If you don't know what the substance is you'll just have to try various solvents until you find one that works. I'd first try some petrol on a cotton bud applied to that gap between the two rows of legends. Then I'd try Servisol label remover, and so on.

camtechman · 22nd May 2016, 9:50 pm

Quote:

If you don't know what the substance is you'll just have to try various solvents until you find one that works.

Don't forget to try your own saliva first as many times chemical solvents don't always remove water based stains and human saliva does. But don't eat a strong curry before gathering saliva from your mouth.

The Science Museum use purified saliva to clean equipment for cleansing.

jascha · 22nd May 2016, 10:10 pm

Hmm I tried saliva but did not do the trick yet. I didn't have a curry either (just some chocolate instead)

.
I looked closely under bright light and I can see this layer of something over the letters that are faded and I believe that a miracle will get it all off one day. Just need to find the right chemical. I have tried a tiny dose of butane and oven cleaner but nothing worked so far. I will try petrol- any ideas where I can get a small amount apart from the obvious petrol station please? I'll try and get a can of servisol too. Any other solvents that might do the trick please and any tips of who might stock spares for Nagras like a Nagra breaker's yard?

Thanks everyone again

stevehertz · 23rd May 2016, 2:05 pm

Hot water (just off boiling) on a cotton bud. BTW, you just say "Servisol" above, that's NOT Servisol switch cleaner, it's Servisol label remover - very different things.

I think that translucent stuff may be white wood glue as it goes clear/opaque once it has dried. But I'm not sure what the solvent is for that.

Ted Kendall · 23rd May 2016, 8:52 pm

If it is PVA, and I think it quite likely, the drill is to find an edge and pick at it with the old Keratin spatula (aka fingernail) - the stuff peels off metal (and vinyl, come to that) with ease once it has been started.

jascha · 23rd May 2016, 9:34 pm

I tried a few solvents this afternoon but am mostly convinced that it is battery leakage as the underside of the machine has like streaks that seems like they came out of the battery compartment and leaked to the front, hence the damage. I doubt that there can be a cure apart from having some luck in finding another front plate in better condition. I wonder if an option would be to have this plate copied by a company who do these sort of things? Any suggestions are most welcome and thanks for all the tips. I can upload more close up images if it's of any help.

dseymo1 · 23rd May 2016, 9:42 pm

If you want to try petrol, it's available in a purer and safer form as lighter fluid.

jascha · 24th May 2016, 3:00 pm

I tried lighter fuel as well but nothing seems to be doing it. I fear the worst. I am trying to look for another front panel in the meantime and also with as much precision as I can with Coreldraw remaking a template with exact measurements, fonts etc so I can have one made by some company eventually. Shame not to restore it back to its original beauty, especially as it performs flawlessly. I attached some pictures as it stands at the moment.

Cheers

dseymo1 · 24th May 2016, 5:04 pm

Since the ghost of the lettering is still visible, I recon that it could be retouched with care. There would still be slight marks in the blank areas, but they'd hardly be noticeable. If you don't want to do it yourself, try a signwriter.
Alternatively, spares may still be available, but I'm not sure who are the Kudelski agents these days, since Sennheiser stood down. It's the sort of thing that you expect to cost a fortune, but might turn out to be very reasonable. It's always worth asking!

Goldie99 · 24th May 2016, 5:09 pm

Hi - have you tried contacting Nagra ? The whole panel looks like an adhesive 'stuck on' part, and knowing the Swiss, they may well still be using the same supplier / still have the original designs etc

Alan.

stevehertz · 25th May 2016, 7:39 am

I have a friend of a friend (so not an 'overnight' question and answer) who 'specializes' in Nagras. I'll see if I can get a message to him and see if he has one.

ricard · 25th May 2016, 10:35 am

Looking especially at the right hand picture above in the thread, it does look like the lettering has been bleached rather than covered with something.

An alternative is just to leave it as it is, as it is part of the machine's history. Sometimes we're all to quick to 'restore' a piece of equipment to what we consider 'brand new condition', yet these machines served a lifetime and have the scars to show for it, yet they soldier on, which is also worth celebrating.

ToneArm · 26th May 2016, 1:05 pm

You could try www.vintagebrassplates.co.uk run by a guy called Chris. He might be able to create a copy front plate. I had a new plate for a garrard turntable off him and it was absolutely indistinguishable from original. Not cheap I should warn you, but for one-off panel production like this I'd say it's good value.
Glyn

jascha · 7th Jun 2016, 5:27 pm

Thanks everyone for your help. Apologies for my late replying... somehow I am not notified of updates via email.
It would be a shame just to leave it as it is as it deserves to be restored aesthetically if it can be helped. Definitely nothing can bring the lettering back sadly as the acid ate into them. I went to a local firm with my machine www.desp.co.uk and they had a look at it and can of course reproduce a front plate for me. I am taking the very long task of painfully (with utmost precision) making a template to exact measurements, design, fonts etc using a very sophisticated software and providing the company with a pdf for them to make a new plate for me. This might take me some time as it's fastidious but unless I see it perfectly identically I won't go ahead with it. It's a great exercise at least and a hell of a challenge

Of course if you know of a spare plate please do let me know anyone.

Cheers

dseymo1 · 7th Jun 2016, 5:37 pm

Would it not be worth removing and scanning the damaged plate, and retouching the image as a template for the reproduction?

22nd May 2016, 9:17 am	#1
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Nagra front plate restoration Hi, I have this Nagra 4S which sadly came to me with some front plate damage due to some spillage of some sort and some of the lettering faded away. there seems to be a film of some liquid which I have no idea what it is but I believe that this can be restored with the right chemicals to remove this stuff. I just hope it did not eat away the lettering underneath. Any ideas please anyone on how to go about it? I had no luck so far trying to find a front plate to replace mine but there's always some hope especially if it can be all cleaned off. Many thanks Jascha Attached Thumbnails

22nd May 2016, 11:15 am	#2
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Is it the faded stripe starting over the U and part of the K in KUDELSKI and progressing downwards, over part of MONO, STEREO and LEVEL you mean? It looks like a strip of thin semi-transparent tape in the image but perhaps that's not the case in reality?

22nd May 2016, 11:21 am	#3
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Yes that's is what I am referring to. There are other sections on that plate that have been sadly affected by what I believe is a spillage of maybe battery acid. I bought it like that and had it serviced by the guru David Lane and it's in perfect working order and hence wish to sort out this problem. If anyone has any ideas or know where I can source a replacement front plate I would be most grateful and pleased. Cheers

22nd May 2016, 2:38 pm	#4
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,833	Re: Nagra front plate restoration The issue is, do the legends appear faded because the 'substance' (it's not a liquid any more) itself is opaque? or is the substance actually clear and the legends have become faded, as what would happen if they have been 'bleached' by the chemical? Because if it's the former, then yes if you can get the substance off without damaging the legends, they will be dark again. But if the legends themselves have become faded/bleached, then even if you can get the stuff off, the legends are intrinsically, faded. Can you not ascertain by looking closely to see which one it is? __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

22nd May 2016, 2:45 pm	#5
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: Nagra front plate restoration I am not an expert in this field but all I can say that this was a liquid spillage and left films in different areas that doesn't feel at all bumpy when I rub my finger or nail across them. I tried gently using a cotton swab with some isopropyl and I got the impression that by rubbing I was seeing the faded letters get darker, until I stopped rubbing. I live in hope. What could I try to use to try and clean it off? Thanks

22nd May 2016, 6:20 pm	#6
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,833	Re: Nagra front plate restoration If you don't know what the substance is you'll just have to try various solvents until you find one that works. I'd first try some petrol on a cotton bud applied to that gap between the two rows of legends. Then I'd try Servisol label remover, and so on. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

22nd May 2016, 10:10 pm	#8
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Hmm I tried saliva but did not do the trick yet. I didn't have a curry either (just some chocolate instead) . I looked closely under bright light and I can see this layer of something over the letters that are faded and I believe that a miracle will get it all off one day. Just need to find the right chemical. I have tried a tiny dose of butane and oven cleaner but nothing worked so far. I will try petrol- any ideas where I can get a small amount apart from the obvious petrol station please? I'll try and get a can of servisol too. Any other solvents that might do the trick please and any tips of who might stock spares for Nagras like a Nagra breaker's yard? Thanks everyone again

23rd May 2016, 2:05 pm	#9
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,833	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Hot water (just off boiling) on a cotton bud. BTW, you just say "Servisol" above, that's NOT Servisol switch cleaner, it's Servisol label remover - very different things. I think that translucent stuff may be white wood glue as it goes clear/opaque once it has dried. But I'm not sure what the solvent is for that. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

23rd May 2016, 8:52 pm	#10
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,675	Re: Nagra front plate restoration If it is PVA, and I think it quite likely, the drill is to find an edge and pick at it with the old Keratin spatula (aka fingernail) - the stuff peels off metal (and vinyl, come to that) with ease once it has been started.

23rd May 2016, 9:34 pm	#11
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: Nagra front plate restoration I tried a few solvents this afternoon but am mostly convinced that it is battery leakage as the underside of the machine has like streaks that seems like they came out of the battery compartment and leaked to the front, hence the damage. I doubt that there can be a cure apart from having some luck in finding another front plate in better condition. I wonder if an option would be to have this plate copied by a company who do these sort of things? Any suggestions are most welcome and thanks for all the tips. I can upload more close up images if it's of any help.

23rd May 2016, 9:42 pm	#12
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Nagra front plate restoration If you want to try petrol, it's available in a purer and safer form as lighter fluid.

24th May 2016, 3:00 pm	#13
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: Nagra front plate restoration I tried lighter fuel as well but nothing seems to be doing it. I fear the worst. I am trying to look for another front panel in the meantime and also with as much precision as I can with Coreldraw remaking a template with exact measurements, fonts etc so I can have one made by some company eventually. Shame not to restore it back to its original beauty, especially as it performs flawlessly. I attached some pictures as it stands at the moment. Cheers Attached Thumbnails

24th May 2016, 5:04 pm	#14
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Since the ghost of the lettering is still visible, I recon that it could be retouched with care. There would still be slight marks in the blank areas, but they'd hardly be noticeable. If you don't want to do it yourself, try a signwriter. Alternatively, spares may still be available, but I'm not sure who are the Kudelski agents these days, since Sennheiser stood down. It's the sort of thing that you expect to cost a fortune, but might turn out to be very reasonable. It's always worth asking!

24th May 2016, 5:09 pm	#15
Goldie99 Heptode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 995	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Hi - have you tried contacting Nagra ? The whole panel looks like an adhesive 'stuck on' part, and knowing the Swiss, they may well still be using the same supplier / still have the original designs etc Alan.

25th May 2016, 7:39 am	#16
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,833	Re: Nagra front plate restoration I have a friend of a friend (so not an 'overnight' question and answer) who 'specializes' in Nagras. I'll see if I can get a message to him and see if he has one. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

25th May 2016, 10:35 am	#17
ricard Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lund, Sweden Posts: 1,632	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Looking especially at the right hand picture above in the thread, it does look like the lettering has been bleached rather than covered with something. An alternative is just to leave it as it is, as it is part of the machine's history. Sometimes we're all to quick to 'restore' a piece of equipment to what we consider 'brand new condition', yet these machines served a lifetime and have the scars to show for it, yet they soldier on, which is also worth celebrating.

26th May 2016, 1:05 pm	#18
ToneArm Pentode Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Conwy, Clwyd, UK. Posts: 246	Re: Nagra front plate restoration You could try www.vintagebrassplates.co.uk run by a guy called Chris. He might be able to create a copy front plate. I had a new plate for a garrard turntable off him and it was absolutely indistinguishable from original. Not cheap I should warn you, but for one-off panel production like this I'd say it's good value. Glyn

7th Jun 2016, 5:27 pm	#19
jascha Hexode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 332	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Thanks everyone for your help. Apologies for my late replying... somehow I am not notified of updates via email. It would be a shame just to leave it as it is as it deserves to be restored aesthetically if it can be helped. Definitely nothing can bring the lettering back sadly as the acid ate into them. I went to a local firm with my machine www.desp.co.uk and they had a look at it and can of course reproduce a front plate for me. I am taking the very long task of painfully (with utmost precision) making a template to exact measurements, design, fonts etc using a very sophisticated software and providing the company with a pdf for them to make a new plate for me. This might take me some time as it's fastidious but unless I see it perfectly identically I won't go ahead with it. It's a great exercise at least and a hell of a challenge Of course if you know of a spare plate please do let me know anyone. Cheers

7th Jun 2016, 5:37 pm	#20
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Nagra front plate restoration Would it not be worth removing and scanning the damaged plate, and retouching the image as a template for the reproduction?