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Old 27th May 2012, 1:26 am   #1
agilly65
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Default Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Hi all,

I have this Smiths Sectric clock from my mother who has so kindly given it to me, with the words, "oh yeah, it just stopped 10 years ago and I never got it fixed".

I've cleaned the outside, but the inners? Power on, and clicking noise from the Bijou. The seconds hand wants to move but won't click over. I'm hoping that if I clean all inside I may save it.

I have read up as much about the unit, but haven't found the "dummies guide to pull it apart". But willing to give it a go. So any help on how to get at the workings and what to clean, big thanks!

As seen from the photos, it was involved with a change of decor hence the paint splatters on the back.

With thanks,
Andy
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Old 27th May 2012, 1:37 pm   #2
Darren-UK
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Hi Andy,

The field coil is obviously OK, this being a common cause of failure on the Bijou movement. Your clock is, I think, the "Dover" model, dating from 1949.

The motor is of the non self-starting type, so do you know how to start it (via the handset knob protruding from the bottom)? Is the clicking noise literally a clicking or is it more like a buzz?

The seconds hand, by the way, is the 'sweep' type. That means it's moves continuously and not in pulses.

Assuming you know how to start the motor and assuming the noise is indeed a click, the problem could be caused by any one of a number of issues but first you need to open it up - as indeed you've asked how to do.

First, unscrew and remove the handset/motor start rod. The bakelite pear-shaped enclosure is called the "capsule". In the middle of the capsule you can see a textured, mushroom-headed thingy. That's the screw which secures the capsule in place. Apply pressure to that with your thumb, twist and it should unscrew. Look at your second image and you can see a metal flange secured by three nuts. You may also need to remove that flange too; sometimes that sits over a rim on the inner circumference of the capsule.

Once you accessed the internals you should be able to see where the problem is coming from. It could simply be the motor start mechanism is stuck in the 'start' position (it's spring loaded and should return when released but, if mucky and gummy, they can stick in).

Other possible problems could be a damaged 'great wheel'; this is a (usually) fibre wheel connecting the rotor pinion to the movement proper. Worn out rotor bearings, causing the rotor to foul, could be another cause.

Get it opened up and then let us know what you find. We'll cover cleaning, degreasing and lubrication when we've ascertained the cause of the trouble as to do it properly the movement should be dismantled.

Please do something about that bodged mains lead too!
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Old 29th May 2012, 3:16 pm   #3
agilly65
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Wow, got the cover off and nothing broke! Nice spring connection on the handset/motor start rod.

Thanks for this, Darren. The clock seems too good to not give it a go, clean up and get working again if possible. Ok, 70 odd years of dust inside.

Start rod spring is free and I can see the start switch move back to the on position, although dirty.
To turn, the motor pivot seems free and no lateral movement.

The time movement; brass section is very dirty and I can feel resistance to turn (adjust time) although it does.

Yes it will have a new power lead, will keep the old lead and show it to the Father, as I believe it's his handiwork. He's a plumber and can hear him now say, "Hey I used electrical tape" and not duct tape!
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Old 29th May 2012, 4:45 pm   #4
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Hi Andy,

I know that lots in 'The trade' don't like to use a well known spray WD40 but used sparingly and keeping it away from the face of the clock this may free up the works, leave for ten minutes then tiny amounts (Applied with a pin head) of Three in One oil on the motor bearings and the "Cog spindle ends" which pierce the frame. It has worked for me many times!
cheers
John
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Old 29th May 2012, 5:06 pm   #5
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

One of the problems with using WD40 in a clock is that if you subsequently do it properly using a clock cleaning fluid all the brass parts will turn bright green!

The only way to clean a clock movement is by dismantling it, otherwise you are only rearranging the muck, like having a bath with your clothes on!
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Old 29th May 2012, 6:30 pm   #6
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Hi Mike, you're absolutely correct. I wouldn't it use on my Rolex Explorer or even a Negretti & Zambra barometer.

cheers
John
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Old 29th May 2012, 9:24 pm   #7
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phelan View Post
The only way to clean a clock movement is by dismantling it...
Here's a 1939 Bijou I did a few years ago:
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Old 29th May 2012, 9:41 pm   #8
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

As you will have noticed, serious clock people don't like WD40. The advice regarding a complete stripdown is good, but if you don't have the time or skill to do it, apply WD40 very sparingly using the tip of a small screwdriver. Never spray it around straight from the aerosol. After applying it wipe off any surplus using a soft rag and let it evaporate for a few days. Then you can relube as John suggests, using 3-in-1 or sewing machine oil.

This advice is only appropriate if you don't want to do a proper dismantling, which is the 'right' way to do it.
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:23 pm   #9
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Paul's advice is good, it's certainly better than running it dry.

But if you do feel brave and decide to dismantle completely, these are one of the easiest clocks to do - far, far easier than a wind-up clock for example. Just don't lose any of the bits, or allow the rotor to come into contact with anything magnetic.

Nick.
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:51 pm   #10
Darren-UK
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

A word of caution, see attached image which shows the underside of a Bijou motor.

You can see the two wires coming from the terminal block passing over the edge of the steel plate. Often those wires are fairly tight over the edge of the plate and, especially if the insulation has gone dodgy, the plate can end up in contact with the conductor(s).

The problem is uncommon but not unknown so check it carefully. This and failure of the field coil are the two drawbacks with the otherwise good Bijou unit.
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:57 pm   #11
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Very true Darren.

From the same clock as I pictured above
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Old 30th May 2012, 12:28 am   #12
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Yes, that's what the little devils do! In fact the whole terminal block arrangement isn't the best, but then it's better than the likes of what Ferranti and Metamec offered.

While on the subject, if those wires do need replacing care needs to be taken when soldering onto the terminal block tags. The tags are secured to the block with pins and heat conduction melts the plastic block, which in turn means the tags and their pins come adrift.
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Old 30th May 2012, 2:37 am   #13
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Seems like it'd be better to use some sort of "paint-on" insulation for those wires, without soldering. Here in the USA they sell a bituminous concoction called "Liquid Electrical Tape". It's used to water-proof splices in high-moisture or outdoor areas. Commonly sold in hardware stores in little cans with a brush. It remains fairly flexible after it cures and sets.

I used the stuff once when I spliced on a new lamp-holder to a refrigerator.

Obviously I couldn't remove the panel completely so I ended up having to clip the broken lampholder out and splicing pigtails of the new one (scrapped from a trashed fridge) to the existing wires. Wrapped it with plenty of electric tape and then glopped plenty of this stuff on, in layers. Held up for many years till I moved flats. I'm sure the safety nuts will have fits, but.... hey, whatever works.
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Old 1st Jun 2012, 10:56 am   #14
mike_newcomb
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

John - I am not a fan of 3in1 oil as it has a 'life' that is not too long.

Have found that while it is good for a quick fix, one soon has to return to apply a decent oil.

Paul mentions sewing maching oil. Singer Sewing Machine oil is my choice for tasks that require a lasting light oil lubrication.

I admit using petroleum (not vaseline) jelly for quick fixes where grease is required. Also silicon grease which lasts forever but is expensive.

Good Luck - Mike
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Old 2nd Jun 2012, 2:38 am   #15
stephanie
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Mike have you (or has anyone here) used a product called Lock Ease - or whatever it's sold as in the UK? It's a graphite suspension in a very light oil (or kerosene, perhaps?) The liquid vehicle evaporates after application and there remains a thin film of graphite. Used to loosen and lubricate lock mechanisms. I used it once on a wind-up clock. That was like 4 months ago and it's still going strong.
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Old 2nd Jun 2012, 12:21 pm   #16
mike_newcomb
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Hi Stephanie,

I was advised of this or a similar product some time back by a locksmith, although I personally have not used. It is available here in the UK:-

http://www.graphitetrading.co.uk/11.html

The thinking being that parts in a lock need to free and grease or oil may become sticky over time, whereas graphite does not.

Have used a soft pencil on occasions, as its graphite content will act as a lubricant on a small area, also to repair a suspect circuit. (e.g. on a keyboard membrane)

Regards - Mike
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Old 2nd Jun 2012, 2:39 pm   #17
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Hello Andy. I recently bought a Smiths Sectric clock which, when plugged in, exhibited the same symptoms as yours. The problem was an incompletely-fitted circlip which was fouling a wheel, preventing its movement.

When the circlip was properly seated, the clock worked perfectly. Good job too, as I thought I would have to dismantle the machinery to clean it.

Hope this is helpful.

Gus.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 12:59 am   #18
stephanie
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_newcomb View Post
I was advised of this or a similar product some time back by a locksmith, although I personally have not used.
That's EXACTLY the product!

It used to come in a metal can with a rubber spout, back in the good ole days. Now it's that plastic squeeze bottle. Still same great product though.

At 4 quid and change, that seems rather pricey, though, since it costs about US$3 and change or so here in the 'States.
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Old 3rd Jun 2012, 9:25 am   #19
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanie View Post

Mike have you (or has anyone here) used a product called Lock Ease - or whatever it's sold as in the UK? It's a graphite suspension in a very light oil (or kerosene, perhaps?) The liquid vehicle evaporates after application and there remains a thin film of graphite. Used to loosen and lubricate lock mechanisms. I used it once on a wind-up clock. That was like 4 months ago and it's still going strong.
Stephanie / Mike

Where did you use it?
I think the only place you could use that in a clock would be on the springs when they are in barrels, and only in a larger clock.
As most USA clocks have open springs (no barrels) it would just make a mess.

Anything like that used on pivot holes is much too heavy unless it's a church clock you are working on.

Clock oil is specifically made not to "creep" and a bottle should last a few decades unless you are doing it for a living.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 12:00 pm   #20
grahamnelson
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Default Re: Smiths Sectric restoration help.

I have a smith sectric wall clock which won't start - can anyone tell me if it is possible to re magnetize the rotor and if so how? Thanks Graham
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