E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

NeilMcC · 8th Apr 2017, 9:50 pm

Guys

New to all this, just picked up a nice little E.A.R Bantam Microgram today and the turntable wouldnt spin, so after removing the platter and establishing that everything was turning inside it would appear the large rubber drive wheel isnt making a decent enough connection with the platter.

To prove this I slipped a rubber band courtesy of Postman Pat over the drive wheel and sure enough, everything spun into life.

Obviously this was just a diagnostic exercise.

Are replacement drive wheels available anywhere ?

Does anyone have any other suggestions to solving this problem ?

Cheers

Neil

Edward Huggins · 8th Apr 2017, 10:43 pm

You do not need a replacement drive (actually an idler) wheel. Make sure the surface edges of this are abraded and the turntable platter inner rim is clean.
It also may mean the spring that engages this has weakened. It may need some links taken out to make it engage better. This applies to whatever turntable is fitted to your Bantam either a Collaro (best) or a BSR TU9 unit.

AC/HL · 9th Apr 2017, 12:03 am

The idler wheel (AKA jockey or intermediate, but we know what you mean) is probably hardened by age. Roughing it up slightly may well provide enough grip. Age often hasn't been kind, but even in their heyday it was necessary to keep the surfaces clean and remove any glazing.

NeilMcC · 9th Apr 2017, 12:57 am

I did give it a gentle rub with some glass paper to deglaze it but that didn't seem to make any difference.

Will have a look at the springs and see if I can get a little more tension on the idler.

The inner edge of the platter when the idler wheel runs has a solid black line from years and years of use.

Is it best to clean that off with a little alcohol? Any other recommendations?

paulsherwin · 9th Apr 2017, 1:00 am

Meths is as good a cleaning solvent as anything, and is cheap and easily available.

NeilMcC · 9th Apr 2017, 2:07 am

Update :-

Just gave the inside of the platter a wipe over with some brake cleaner and a gentle rub with some emery to wipe the witness mark off the platter.

Now when you power it up and move the tone arm back it is driving the platter but with speed issues, it can't seem to maintain a constant speed.

A 7" 45 plays but with variations in speed and a basic RPM Calculator app on my phone shows variations between 44 and 45rpm

But when you put a 12" LP on it, it can hardly drive it

Any ideas?

AC/HL · 9th Apr 2017, 2:55 am

What's the speed like with the rubber band?

Edward Huggins · 9th Apr 2017, 8:45 am

From what you've said, is this the model with the Collaro record deck? It still sounds like a torque issue.

NeilMcC · 9th Apr 2017, 2:09 pm

Yes Edward it has Collaro on the tone arm

How can I improve torque, or is this just a tired motor or a bearing not running smoothly so it's sapping power

I put a tiny drop of 3 in 1 on the idler wheel bearing to ensure that was running as freely as possible but suspect the platter spindle may not be running as freely as it could.

NeilMcC · 9th Apr 2017, 2:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/HL

What's the speed like with the rubber band?

I didn't actutally check that, it was just an experiment to see if the issue was a worn idler wheel.

Will refit it and have a go.

Edward Huggins · 9th Apr 2017, 3:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcC

How can I improve torque ? or is this just a tired motor or a bearing not running a smoothly so its sapping power

I put a tiny drop of 3 in 1 on the idler wheel bearing to ensure that was running as freely as possible but suspect the platter spindle may not be running as freely as it could

The motors on these are built like a battleshhip and rarely fail. On my 2 examples of this deck, it can take some time to reach the desired speed. Check for any hardened grease.

NeilMcC · 9th Apr 2017, 3:26 pm

Sorry to appear dumb, but where am I checking for hardened grease? I can't see any grease at all anywhere.

Edward Huggins · 9th Apr 2017, 6:53 pm

Check the linkages.

NeilMcC · 10th Apr 2017, 10:06 pm

Out of interest, how freely should the platter spindle spin without the platter in place?

Could this be sapping 'torque' and causing the speed fluctuations?

Edward Huggins · 11th Apr 2017, 8:34 am

The platter spindle is fixed. The turntable revolves around it.

Audio1950 · 11th Apr 2017, 12:09 pm

If this is a single play Collaro deck (i.e. not an autochanger) then I don't think the spindle is fixed, but I could well be wrong! In either case, it won't move at all with the platter removed. The platter is driven by the rubber idler wheel, not the centre spindle.

NeilMcC · 11th Apr 2017, 7:35 pm

Sorry I meant when you spin it by hand

Edward Huggins · 11th Apr 2017, 7:43 pm

Spin what by hand? If you mean the turntable (Platter) it should spin very freely. It's a quite heavy, 10" pressed steel item.

Audio1950 · 11th Apr 2017, 9:19 pm

But if you mean the centre spindle, then it won 't spin on it's own, there is no weight on it, but there should be no resistance at all if you spin it by hand.

Heatercathodeshort · 11th Apr 2017, 10:10 pm

This sounds like a Collaro problem. The rubber used to make idler wheels and speed pulleys does not stand up to the years very well. Some Garrard units suffer a similar fate and no matter what you do they simply will not drive reliably.
The BSR unit employs much better components and after a simple clean up should perform 100%. The rubber is of extremely high quality that does not appear to deteriorate.
Of course there is always the odd one that is bad but I have never come across one. John.

8th Apr 2017, 9:50 pm	#1
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Guys New to all this, just picked up a nice little E.A.R Bantam Microgram today and the turntable wouldnt spin, so after removing the platter and establishing that everything was turning inside it would appear the large rubber drive wheel isnt making a decent enough connection with the platter. To prove this I slipped a rubber band courtesy of Postman Pat over the drive wheel and sure enough, everything spun into life. Obviously this was just a diagnostic exercise. Are replacement drive wheels available anywhere ? Does anyone have any other suggestions to solving this problem ? Cheers Neil

8th Apr 2017, 10:43 pm	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question You do not need a replacement drive (actually an idler) wheel. Make sure the surface edges of this are abraded and the turntable platter inner rim is clean. It also may mean the spring that engages this has weakened. It may need some links taken out to make it engage better. This applies to whatever turntable is fitted to your Bantam either a Collaro (best) or a BSR TU9 unit. __________________ Edward.

9th Apr 2017, 12:03 am	#3
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question The idler wheel (AKA jockey or intermediate, but we know what you mean) is probably hardened by age. Roughing it up slightly may well provide enough grip. Age often hasn't been kind, but even in their heyday it was necessary to keep the surfaces clean and remove any glazing.

9th Apr 2017, 12:57 am	#4
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question I did give it a gentle rub with some glass paper to deglaze it but that didn't seem to make any difference. Will have a look at the springs and see if I can get a little more tension on the idler. The inner edge of the platter when the idler wheel runs has a solid black line from years and years of use. Is it best to clean that off with a little alcohol? Any other recommendations?

9th Apr 2017, 1:00 am	#5
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,960	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Meths is as good a cleaning solvent as anything, and is cheap and easily available.

9th Apr 2017, 2:07 am	#6
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Update :- Just gave the inside of the platter a wipe over with some brake cleaner and a gentle rub with some emery to wipe the witness mark off the platter. Now when you power it up and move the tone arm back it is driving the platter but with speed issues, it can't seem to maintain a constant speed. A 7" 45 plays but with variations in speed and a basic RPM Calculator app on my phone shows variations between 44 and 45rpm But when you put a 12" LP on it, it can hardly drive it Any ideas?

9th Apr 2017, 2:55 am	#7
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question What's the speed like with the rubber band?

9th Apr 2017, 8:45 am	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question From what you've said, is this the model with the Collaro record deck? It still sounds like a torque issue. __________________ Edward.

9th Apr 2017, 2:09 pm	#9
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Yes Edward it has Collaro on the tone arm How can I improve torque, or is this just a tired motor or a bearing not running smoothly so it's sapping power I put a tiny drop of 3 in 1 on the idler wheel bearing to ensure that was running as freely as possible but suspect the platter spindle may not be running as freely as it could.

9th Apr 2017, 3:26 pm	#12
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Sorry to appear dumb, but where am I checking for hardened grease? I can't see any grease at all anywhere.

9th Apr 2017, 6:53 pm	#13
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Check the linkages. __________________ Edward.

10th Apr 2017, 10:06 pm	#14
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Out of interest, how freely should the platter spindle spin without the platter in place? Could this be sapping 'torque' and causing the speed fluctuations?

11th Apr 2017, 8:34 am	#15
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question The platter spindle is fixed. The turntable revolves around it. __________________ Edward.

11th Apr 2017, 12:09 pm	#16
Audio1950 Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,763	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question If this is a single play Collaro deck (i.e. not an autochanger) then I don't think the spindle is fixed, but I could well be wrong! In either case, it won't move at all with the platter removed. The platter is driven by the rubber idler wheel, not the centre spindle.

11th Apr 2017, 7:35 pm	#17
NeilMcC Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Bedford, Beds. UK. Posts: 17	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Sorry I meant when you spin it by hand

11th Apr 2017, 7:43 pm	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,335	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question Spin what by hand? If you mean the turntable (Platter) it should spin very freely. It's a quite heavy, 10" pressed steel item. __________________ Edward.

11th Apr 2017, 9:19 pm	#19
Audio1950 Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,763	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question But if you mean the centre spindle, then it won 't spin on it's own, there is no weight on it, but there should be no resistance at all if you spin it by hand.

11th Apr 2017, 10:10 pm	#20
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: E.A.R. Bantam Spares Question This sounds like a Collaro problem. The rubber used to make idler wheels and speed pulleys does not stand up to the years very well. Some Garrard units suffer a similar fate and no matter what you do they simply will not drive reliably. The BSR unit employs much better components and after a simple clean up should perform 100%. The rubber is of extremely high quality that does not appear to deteriorate. Of course there is always the odd one that is bad but I have never come across one. John.