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Old 5th Nov 2019, 10:42 am   #1
brianbelfast
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Default Here's a challenge for you guys...

Very many years ago when I was maybe 6 or 7, so that's pushing 50 years ago, my parents had a b&w rental TV. It was dual standard and also had a VHF radio. It had a highly polished wooden case and the screen was behind glass. The tube was quite square cornered and would have been about 17" or maybe 19" if there was such a tube size. It worked brilliantly. Rock solid. The best quality picture you could wish for at the time. Visitors remarked on how good it was. It had the clunky VHF channel selector on the front and a variable UHF tuner on the side along with the selector for 405-625-RAD. Unfortunately it came to a sad end after many years of faithful service when it had a little fire in, what I now know to be, the line output and transformer area at the back. By this time it was mid 70's and my Dad went out and bought our first colour set. A Mitsubishi C-202 or CT-202 maybe. It was a great set too. Now here's the challenge. Might sound daft, but if I was to do my best to draw a picture of the old b&w set from memory, could anyone identify it ? And maybe have a picture ? I'm no artist but I could have a go.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 11:51 am   #2
Paul_RK
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

I'd say there's a fair likelihood someone here will recognise it, though it won't be me as I can't positively recall any set with a side-mounted UHF tuner control and front-mounted VHF, never mind with radio as well. 19" CRTs very much existed and had taken over from 17" as the mass market norm before UHF broadcasting started, so the set will very probably have been 19" unless it was a delayed conversion to dual standard.

Some manufacturers had production facilities in Northern Ireland and offered models there which wouldn't have appeared in the rest of the UK, so that may hamper identification, but why not do the sketch and give the team a chance...

Paul
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 12:49 pm   #3
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

My Auntie had a 19 inch BAIRD set. It sounded similar to the one you described with a good picture, and like yours caught fire! She poured the water from the flower pot on top of the TV into it and blew the house fuse!
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 3:10 pm   #4
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Mum and Dad had a Baird 21" set. Cabinet doors closed across the front. Turret tuner for VHF, continuous tuning tuner for UHF mounted just above that. Obviously not the set being identified, but it met its end when dad picked up the burning set and chucked it out the front door into the garden.

It had been a really good set up to the point of combustion. I think it's a family variant of the one being sought.

If I remember rightly, the UHF tuner was added after they got the set. It was also the TV on which I discovered the disappearance of all UHF programmes and VHF ITV, but not VHF BBC1 the night the mast fell at (on) Emley.

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Old 5th Nov 2019, 3:26 pm   #5
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

I'm thinking GEC about 1964 with the tuner and speaker to the right (not necessarily Radio Rentals so could be any make as well as Baird), got a feeling it had a radio option, GEC/Sobell had a habit of including radios.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 4:56 pm   #6
brianbelfast
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds promising. It's only a bit of fun. I'll get drawing and upload my masterpiece soon.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 8:04 pm   #7
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Sounds like a DER series, maybe an 850 or 900 chassis. They did FM versions of these for rental but I don't think Thorn issued dual standard receivers with FM for general release. John.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 11:42 am   #8
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

I cant help with the set identification, but this seems like a fun bandwagon. Can anybody jump on? as I would like to find out what my childhood TV was also.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 2:47 pm   #9
brianbelfast
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Why not ? Could be fun. Get drawing.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 2:54 pm   #10
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Sounds like a DER series, maybe an 850 or 900 chassis. They did FM versions of these for rental but I don't think Thorn issued dual standard receivers with FM for general release. John.
There were retail sale Thorn group 800/850 dual standard sets with VHF/FM radio facilities. I have some individual model service manual supplement sheets that show this (e.g.Ultra).
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 3:20 pm   #11
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

I must have had untold numbers of 850s through my hands but I have never seen one with FM. I knew it existed on some of the rental models. Which Ultra model is it? I can't locate it in my 850 files. I suppose the attraction of radio incorporated in the TV had died by 1964. Very few customers if any actually used it rather preferring the new transistor portable or small mains receiver in the kitchen. Regards, John.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 6:28 pm   #12
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Some Radio Rentals Baird TV sets had FM radio. 660, 670 and 680 series models.
There's a Thorn 850 model listed in the Radio and Television servicing books.
Wasn't the GEC 2017 an FM/TV model?

DFWB.

Last edited by FERNSEH; 6th Nov 2019 at 6:37 pm.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 8:49 pm   #13
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Wasn't the GEC 2017 an FM/TV model?
DFWB.
Yes, it was.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 8:54 pm   #14
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
I must have had untold numbers of 850s through my hands but I have never seen one with FM. I knew it existed on some of the rental models. Which Ultra model is it? I can't locate it in my 850 files. I suppose the attraction of radio incorporated in the TV had died by 1964. Very few customers if any actually used it rather preferring the new transistor portable or small mains receiver in the kitchen. Regards, John.
Thorn models with VHF/FM radio facilities:

Thorn 850: Ultra 6621 and 6623, HMV 2614.

Thorn 900: HMV 2624, Ferguson 3625, Ultra 6627.

Thorn 950 (16kV) EHT: Ultra 6635.

Taken from the BRC Bulletin Special Issue (TV chassis identification), November 1969.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 10:06 pm   #15
FERNSEH
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

"Visitors remarked on how good it was. It had the clunky VHF channel selector on the front and a variable UHF tuner on the side along with the selector for 405-625-RAD."
Then it would not have not been an RR Baird set. All Baird 640 series TVs had front controls.
The dual standard Sobell ST197 had FM radio but the VHF 405 tuner was on the cabinet side. The 625/405 switch was positioned close to the rear of the cabinet. So that model is ruled out.
I think we are closing in on a certain Thorn model, maybe one from DER?

DFWB.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 10:54 pm   #16
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
[I]The dual standard Sobell ST197 had FM radio but the VHF 405 tuner was on the cabinet side. The 625/405 switch was positioned close to the rear of the cabinet. So that model is ruled out.
I think we are closing in on a certain Thorn model, maybe one from DER?

DFWB.
Here’s a photo of the GEC 2017: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/gec_2017.html

All controls are on the front.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 10:57 pm   #17
brianbelfast
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

No it's not that one. I do remember that model though. There was one in my primary school.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 11:24 pm   #18
brianbelfast
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
"Visitors remarked on how good it was. It had the clunky VHF channel selector on the front and a variable UHF tuner on the side along with the selector for 405-625-RAD."
Then it would not have not been an RR Baird set. All Baird 640 series TVs had front controls.
The dual standard Sobell ST197 had FM radio but the VHF 405 tuner was on the cabinet side. The 625/405 switch was positioned close to the rear of the cabinet. So that model is ruled out.
I think we are closing in on a certain Thorn model, maybe one from DER?

DFWB.
Someone here may be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember having DER here in Northern Ireland. The set in question was rented from a company called Telefusion, which I think later became Visionhire. A huge fleet of white Mk2 Escort estates.

I'm starting to think it may be Sobell. There are one or two models you guys have suggested that certainly look like they came from the same stable.

Thanks for all the efforts so far. Very interesting indeed.

Last edited by brianbelfast; 6th Nov 2019 at 11:25 pm. Reason: Autocorrect travesty
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 1:01 am   #19
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

The fact that BRC offered a dual-standard TV-FM receiver design was recorded in Wireless World 1963 October:

Click image for larger version

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Name:	WW 196310 p.474.jpg
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ID:	193220


Cheers,
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 8:33 am   #20
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Here's a challenge for you guys...

The Sobell ST197, which had VHF radio, is shown in the bottom photo here. Looks much the same as the ST196, which didn’t have VHF radio.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tage-462922158

The GEC model 2017 mentioned in a earlier thread, did have VHF radio built in. The main change was the replacement of the EH90 FM detector valve with two Germanium diodes.
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