Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

neosodium · 13th Feb 2015, 3:50 pm

It runs! Thanks Mike!

It does however have a little problem so much as it seems to empty the tape into the machine (I remember a lot of old VCRs doing this!) due to the pulley that drives the take up spool slipping against the belt that drives it. (marked it in red on the photo below)

http://oi58.tinypic.com/w6oxfl.jpg

So my next question, presuming the belt needs replacing, is ... where can I find a new belt?

Nicklyons2 · 13th Feb 2015, 4:54 pm

I should have some belts somewhere. The only problem is that I may not have the large 'relay belt' . I'll have a look if you get no joy elsewhere.

The difference between this early version and all the later versions is that the large belt was replaced by a modified idler assembly and two smaller belts. By changeing the idler assy you can make one type into the other very easily. Fortunately many belt 'kits' for that range of machines contained a large relay belt in case you had the appropriate version. Belt Kits seem to be still available here
http://www.donberg.co.uk/descript/1/11050.htm

Temporary fix: now I hate myself for suggesting this - it used to be a real 'sharks' bodge. Take off the belt clean it with a cloth moistened with warm water and just a tiny drop of washing-up liquid; draw the belt through the cloth and get all the surface muck and dried out rubber off THEN put it into a suitable vessel (pint pot etc) and pour boiling water on it - leave it until the water has cooled a bit take it out - dry it and try it. Chances are it will work for a few weeks, or at least long enough for you to spot further difficulties.

neosodium · 13th Feb 2015, 6:56 pm

Thanks for the advice. Does the link you posted cover the early models with the large belt? I also found this

http://www.notobsolete.co.uk/index.p...2f88ts2uqu9h92

which might be the correct set? Alternatively, there seem to be individual belts available on eBay to varying sizes as seen here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cassette-R...item19eb4c627a

but I don't know the correct size for that belt. I will have a go at the cleaning routine anyway to see if I can get any tapes to play or further issues to show.

neosodium · 13th Feb 2015, 8:24 pm

Quick update, did the belt cleaning/boiling and the belt was a much snugger fit but it still seems to slip when playing tapes (though less so) and I was able to actually play back something on the television.

During playback there is a bar of static at the bottom of the screen and the picture seems to flicker up and down very fast (looks like each frame of video is alternating up/down by a couple of mm) - I was able to fix this by switching the tracking to manual and adjusting the control but that made snow on the picture. Drum belt need replacing too?

Nicklyons2 · 14th Feb 2015, 9:47 am

The 'auto' position, so marked on the tracking control is a 'con' on these machines, it is actually a fixed position which is set up to be perfect tracking on the machine's own recordings. True 'auto-tracking' didn't appear until quite some time after. The effect you observe whereby the tracking cannot be set to give an even, noise free image over the whole screen is due to poor interchangeability between the original recording and the machine's alignment.

Remember mechanical alignment is critical; the VHS track is around 49microns wide and the machine has to find this with a head whirling at 1500rpm, not bad for a machine using rubber bands and 'glorified' scalextric motors.

Now DON'T start adjusting the tape path yet. The machine may be OK and it may be the recording which is marginal. A tape recorded on a machine which is out of alignment will not play properly on a perfectly aligned machine (and vice versa); hence the term "interchange".

Proper, and very expensive, tapes were issued by the manufacturers which had perfect alignment and were used for adjusting machines. In lieu of one of these, try a selection of recordings done on different machines and pre-recorded tapes; if some of these play properly, with the tracking being even over the field, the machine may not be far out.

neosodium · 14th Feb 2015, 9:51 pm

Two of the tapes I played were pre-recorded and both suffered the same issue. I had (have?) no intention of adjusting the tape path - didn't know this could even be the issue - I assumed the drum wasn't spinning at the right speed or a consistent speed due to a worn belt.

Once I have a new playback/transport belt for the machine I will try making and playing back a recording too. I want to get the belt sorted first because if I play the tape for more than 20 seconds it will start to unravel from the take up spool turning too slow.

Still don't know which belt or kit to purchase for this machine though. Posted a couple of things I found above but I don't want to buy one that doesn't have the right belt in it.

neosodium · 16th Feb 2015, 2:13 am

Okay, I figured out the right kit to order I think and I will change all the belts since they will all get new replacements. I did read somewhere that one of the belts should not be changed if it still works due to the motor bearings not liking the added tension? If there's one I shouldn't change then someone let me know :P

Once that's sorted I can be a lot less careful what tapes I let it near and figure out what the tracking type issue is caused by.

Nicklyons2 · 16th Feb 2015, 11:30 am

I wouldn't worry too much about the added tension - just change the belts. Whilst you have the capatan belt off you could slide out the capstan/flywheel ass'y and put a drop of oil onto the capstan bearing - if so watch the plastic dust cover on the capstan shaft - don't lose it and put it back when you re-assemble.

Regarding 'Interchange' make sure the tape path on the lower drum is spotless; dirt and shed oxide can build up on the inclined slope machined into the lower (static) drum. As I said earlier with a track 49microns wide, you don't need much dirt to misguide the tape slightly out of position.

neosodium · 2nd Mar 2015, 6:12 pm

Okay, so what is the best way to clean and ensure the lower drum is free of obstruction?

The new transfer belt sorted the grip on the drive pulley but for some reason the inner brass part of the pulley is now slipping inside the outer plastic part (seems overly loose) - jammed a bit of rubber band between them and all works fine but I'll have to find a little 'O' ring or something that will stay put better.

Nicklyons2 · 2nd Mar 2015, 9:11 pm

Cotton buds soaked in 'meths' or propanol and gently rub around the lower drum. TAKE CARE not to catch the heads on the upper drum with threads of the cotton or you may damage the video head.

13th Feb 2015, 3:50 pm	#21
neosodium Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes It runs! Thanks Mike! It does however have a little problem so much as it seems to empty the tape into the machine (I remember a lot of old VCRs doing this!) due to the pulley that drives the take up spool slipping against the belt that drives it. (marked it in red on the photo below) http://oi58.tinypic.com/w6oxfl.jpg So my next question, presuming the belt needs replacing, is ... where can I find a new belt?

13th Feb 2015, 4:54 pm	#22
Nicklyons2 Octode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,517	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes I should have some belts somewhere. The only problem is that I may not have the large 'relay belt' . I'll have a look if you get no joy elsewhere. The difference between this early version and all the later versions is that the large belt was replaced by a modified idler assembly and two smaller belts. By changeing the idler assy you can make one type into the other very easily. Fortunately many belt 'kits' for that range of machines contained a large relay belt in case you had the appropriate version. Belt Kits seem to be still available here http://www.donberg.co.uk/descript/1/11050.htm Temporary fix: now I hate myself for suggesting this - it used to be a real 'sharks' bodge. Take off the belt clean it with a cloth moistened with warm water and just a tiny drop of washing-up liquid; draw the belt through the cloth and get all the surface muck and dried out rubber off THEN put it into a suitable vessel (pint pot etc) and pour boiling water on it - leave it until the water has cooled a bit take it out - dry it and try it. Chances are it will work for a few weeks, or at least long enough for you to spot further difficulties. Last edited by Nicklyons2; 13th Feb 2015 at 4:55 pm. Reason: spelling

13th Feb 2015, 6:56 pm	#23
neosodium Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes Thanks for the advice. Does the link you posted cover the early models with the large belt? I also found this http://www.notobsolete.co.uk/index.p...2f88ts2uqu9h92 which might be the correct set? Alternatively, there seem to be individual belts available on eBay to varying sizes as seen here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cassette-R...item19eb4c627a but I don't know the correct size for that belt. I will have a go at the cleaning routine anyway to see if I can get any tapes to play or further issues to show.

13th Feb 2015, 8:24 pm	#24
neosodium Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes Quick update, did the belt cleaning/boiling and the belt was a much snugger fit but it still seems to slip when playing tapes (though less so) and I was able to actually play back something on the television. During playback there is a bar of static at the bottom of the screen and the picture seems to flicker up and down very fast (looks like each frame of video is alternating up/down by a couple of mm) - I was able to fix this by switching the tracking to manual and adjusting the control but that made snow on the picture. Drum belt need replacing too?

14th Feb 2015, 9:47 am	#25
Nicklyons2 Octode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,517	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes The 'auto' position, so marked on the tracking control is a 'con' on these machines, it is actually a fixed position which is set up to be perfect tracking on the machine's own recordings. True 'auto-tracking' didn't appear until quite some time after. The effect you observe whereby the tracking cannot be set to give an even, noise free image over the whole screen is due to poor interchangeability between the original recording and the machine's alignment. Remember mechanical alignment is critical; the VHS track is around 49microns wide and the machine has to find this with a head whirling at 1500rpm, not bad for a machine using rubber bands and 'glorified' scalextric motors. Now DON'T start adjusting the tape path yet. The machine may be OK and it may be the recording which is marginal. A tape recorded on a machine which is out of alignment will not play properly on a perfectly aligned machine (and vice versa); hence the term "interchange". Proper, and very expensive, tapes were issued by the manufacturers which had perfect alignment and were used for adjusting machines. In lieu of one of these, try a selection of recordings done on different machines and pre-recorded tapes; if some of these play properly, with the tracking being even over the field, the machine may not be far out.

14th Feb 2015, 9:51 pm	#26
neosodium Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes Two of the tapes I played were pre-recorded and both suffered the same issue. I had (have?) no intention of adjusting the tape path - didn't know this could even be the issue - I assumed the drum wasn't spinning at the right speed or a consistent speed due to a worn belt. Once I have a new playback/transport belt for the machine I will try making and playing back a recording too. I want to get the belt sorted first because if I play the tape for more than 20 seconds it will start to unravel from the take up spool turning too slow. Still don't know which belt or kit to purchase for this machine though. Posted a couple of things I found above but I don't want to buy one that doesn't have the right belt in it. Last edited by neosodium; 14th Feb 2015 at 9:59 pm.

16th Feb 2015, 2:13 am	#27
neosodium Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes Okay, I figured out the right kit to order I think and I will change all the belts since they will all get new replacements. I did read somewhere that one of the belts should not be changed if it still works due to the motor bearings not liking the added tension? If there's one I shouldn't change then someone let me know :P Once that's sorted I can be a lot less careful what tapes I let it near and figure out what the tracking type issue is caused by.

16th Feb 2015, 11:30 am	#28
Nicklyons2 Octode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,517	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes I wouldn't worry too much about the added tension - just change the belts. Whilst you have the capatan belt off you could slide out the capstan/flywheel ass'y and put a drop of oil onto the capstan bearing - if so watch the plastic dust cover on the capstan shaft - don't lose it and put it back when you re-assemble. Regarding 'Interchange' make sure the tape path on the lower drum is spotless; dirt and shed oxide can build up on the inclined slope machined into the lower (static) drum. As I said earlier with a track 49microns wide, you don't need much dirt to misguide the tape slightly out of position.

2nd Mar 2015, 6:12 pm	#29
neosodium Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes Okay, so what is the best way to clean and ensure the lower drum is free of obstruction? The new transfer belt sorted the grip on the drive pulley but for some reason the inner brass part of the pulley is now slipping inside the outer plastic part (seems overly loose) - jammed a bit of rubber band between them and all works fine but I'll have to find a little 'O' ring or something that will stay put better.

2nd Mar 2015, 9:11 pm	#30
Nicklyons2 Octode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 1,517	Re: Ferguson model 3292 ignoring tapes Cotton buds soaked in 'meths' or propanol and gently rub around the lower drum. TAKE CARE not to catch the heads on the upper drum with threads of the cotton or you may damage the video head.