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Old 24th Jun 2021, 2:01 pm   #21
John.Fulwood
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Okay, from what I can tell, I've got one thing right - I've managed to get myself a pair of Quad II's. Everything else is up in the air!!

Am I on the right lines with the Qutest? I was originally going to build a system around that, before I got my hands on the Quads.

I've now concluded that whatever I do to the Quad's, I should not make any changes irreversible - I get the logic for that.

Also, don't believe the hype - £1k for Quad a pre-amp may be a trap? Nobody came back to me on the Audiolab M-Dac? That would solve the pre-amp and ditch the Qutest idea. I've coveted Audiolab for decades, but never owned any of their kit.

What about a passive pre-amp with volume control. I've seen a few, but there is not much written about them that I would understand.

David -I confess, there is a bit of bragging to be done, I won't lie. I have friends to compete with as we all do, but I'm not afraid of the unorthodox, if there is an intellectual and ultimate performance argument to be won in doing so.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 2:09 pm   #22
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.Fulwood View Post
... Nobody came back to me on the Audiolab M-Dac? ...
Clue might be in the forum name . The Quad II's design dates from 1953. We know a thing or two about those .

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Old 24th Jun 2021, 3:41 pm   #23
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Probably no-one on here is interested in that DAC.

This forum is populated by many people from the repair trade, some from management of some well known audio names, some from the BBC, some involved in particle accelerators, MRI scanners and spacecraft. Some from recording studios, some from education specialising in acoustics. There are plenty of people with the engineering nouse to be able to look at a design and to assess it accurately. There are plenty of people who can tell you how empty all manner of expensive stuff is and how free from anything special it is. I've got a mixed past in aerospace and test & measurement equipment (Senior design engineer at a Fortune 500 company). Collectively, we know quite a lot across the whole of electronics. What you're starting to discover is a gap in our interests. We do do modern stuff, but the way the hifi industry has turned doesn't get anyone excited enough to be bothered with it. The prices of some things and the more extreme claims made get a bit of a laugh, but that's it. When they roll out the pseudo-science to justify their claims, that's it! There are people rolling on the floor. Pseudo-science? Pah! we can do the real thing

On this forum, you'll find a dry, somewhat cynical approach to modern hifi. We like to think it's a dry, measured and proportionate response, but we might just be a bit biassed.

On the audio fora I've seen, things are more chaotic. The level of understanding is a lot less and some people get all shouty or pontificate on areas they have no background knowledge in. It's difficult to find the genuinely knowledgeable people amongst the noise. There is a lot of hype, and victims repeating the hype they fell prey to. If you have enough maths and engineering knowledge to be able to sort out the good info from the dross, it will still wear you down and become tedious.

The modern hifi buff seems to change his gear frequently, with things lasting a few years before something different comes along. Professional designers are arrogant b'stards at the best of times, so I made a point of designing my own hifi electronics from the ground up. That was 40 to 41 years ago. I'm still using it. A few years in, I added a CD player, and 8 years ago I replaced it because I'd worn it out (drawer gears at 23 years old).... oh, I nearly forgot, I put new heads in the Revox in the late eighties. It was good enough for me to feel satisfied back when I designed it. It was better than my hearing then, and I think my hearing has degraded more than my hifi over the intervening years. It's still delightful to see the expression of someone hearing it for the first time. It dawns on them that they're hearing things they haven't heard before. Proper deep bass down to low frequencies, not something limited to higher frequencies, with a bump in the shallow bass region to fill in the 'boom' or music with an abrupt demonstration of the recorded dynamic range which really can startle when they've been spoon-fed optimodded compressed crap either on the radio or on streaming or CD just because of the loudness wars.

It's good to see a hifi buff meet this gear. It's genuinely professional in construction, but there are no badges to tell them the make, so they can't search their memories for reviews telling them what they should say about it. It catches them off guard. They would have to say things based on their own hearing, and they daren't say anything for fear of later being found to have disagreed with an accepted guru and used all the wrong adjectives and similes.

Rebels without a cause?

No, We are the rebels with a scientific foundation! And we're having fun.

There are some rather nice bits of 'high end' equipment but we'll baulk at the current prices (because lots of us know what it would cost to make) and we'll fall about laughing at the attempts at justification. Sometime in the future, when the prices have come down and they are unfashionable, you'll find the good examples being restored hereabouts.

I hope this helps. I'm trying to talk you out of being trapped like some flying dutchman into perpetually changing everything, and into getting something good enough so that you can sit back and have decades of enjoyment listening to music.

David
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 4:00 pm   #24
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

All the pre amps from that era are nothing like as good as the matching power amps and very few people use the 22 with II's.

Any modern pre amp with a bit of gain should work well with the II's.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 7:02 pm   #25
John.Fulwood
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Good point GJ - I will think through my queries within the group. I've just come off 2 hrs of listening, it's good as it is, very good - you can't hear the hiss when it's playing. Will move it into its new room shortly and go from there.
David, the education has made me question my choices, thank you.
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Old 24th Jun 2021, 11:57 pm   #26
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.Fulwood View Post
Nobody came back to me on the Audiolab M-Dac?
For that sort of money I'd be looking at RME. They make solid professional kit that sounds good and lasts for years. Their ADI2-DAC is aimed more at the home hifi market and has better specs than the Audiolab although it doesn't have quite as many inputs.
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Old 25th Jun 2021, 8:14 am   #27
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

On the back o this I have a 22 with all the valves and 2 plug-in's that was miss sold as a 44 ( It arrived all packed up but wrong preamp ) looking for £120 plus post or pickup untested only want the money spent back . Mod's del if breaks the rules ( PM if interested )


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Old 25th Jun 2021, 9:50 am   #28
John.Fulwood
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Dave, thanks. I have a 22 already.
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Old 25th Jun 2021, 5:42 pm   #29
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

The preamp is just a volume control - almost everything delivers the right input level for the Quads. What is your music source? Vinyl, CDs? I added a phono (the jones plugs were broken on mine), it is an easy change to reverse, and I cannot believe anyone who uses these amps for their musical qualities would keep that.

I mostly use them with a better quality Bluetooth receiver, and control the volume on the source. They are plenty loud enough into my medium sensitive Canton bookshelf speakers.

On the other end I added a laptop style IEC (it fits nicely through the old fuse hole), drilled a hole for a dedicated earth point, and put a fuse and on/off switch in the voltage selector cutout. That is not needed these days, and it is better to keep the HT up one end, signal input at the other, and the speakers away from that as well (hence the orientation of the speaker plugs, next to the OPT).

The IEC can be added without drilling, so potentially 100% reversible changes to aid usability.
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Old 25th Jun 2021, 6:05 pm   #30
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

At last a bit of common sense
Trev
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Old 25th Jun 2021, 6:10 pm   #31
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardgr View Post
... I cannot believe anyone who uses these amps for their musical qualities would keep that ...
You may not be able to believe it. But some people certainly do . Mine still have their Jones sockets and I'm listening to them now - the attached album, in fact. They sound fine.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 7:40 am   #32
Richardgr
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Hi GJ, I'm always on the lookout for new music, but that one was a bit more challenging to track down! YouTube hadn't heard of some of these, which was a first for me.
The Empresses of Africa
A genre I had not really listened to before, thanks for the pointer!
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 8:12 am   #33
GrimJosef
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

The first track is a good test for the 'sound' of a hifi system, having sharp percussion, deep bass, clear vocals and enough complexity that intermodulation distortion will make it hard to pick out the detail.

It's also the best cover of a Jimi Hendrix song I've ever heard. This Youtube transfer isn't great quality, but it gives an idea of what the number can sound like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36bGFi1U_vw

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 8:40 am   #34
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Back on topic please.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 4:40 pm   #35
John.Fulwood
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Default Re: Quad II and Quad 22 with modern sources and speakers

Richard, thanks for the note and the pictures. Great to get the views of people that have made some modifications.
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