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Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets. |
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26th Feb 2018, 1:01 pm | #1 |
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Origin of 'condenser' name
Can anyone explain the origin of the term 'condenser' for a capacitor? What is it 'condensing'? Surely they just store static charge.
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26th Feb 2018, 1:09 pm | #2 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Storing a lot of charge in a small space? That is a bit like condensing a gas to make a liquid. Just a wild guess.
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26th Feb 2018, 1:12 pm | #3 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
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26th Feb 2018, 1:15 pm | #4 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Yes, at one time electricity was thought of as an invisible 'vital fluid' and the likes of the Leyden Jar [an early capacitor] were used to store it!
[This is I guess also where the old unit-of-capacitance called the "Jar" came from?] |
26th Feb 2018, 1:45 pm | #5 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
I've always understood the word 'condenser' arising by analogy to condensation of water molecules on a cold window in a warm room. However, if the temperature changes so that the outside of the window becomes warmer than the inside, the reverse takes place. Thus there appears to be a movement of water molecules through the glass dielectric, which is not actually the case. What does happen in the above scenario is that water molecules become stored on one side of the window or the other. So, in conclusion, the capacitor 'condenses' the electrons and in the above window analogy, the glass acts as the dielectric in a capacitor.
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26th Feb 2018, 1:58 pm | #6 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Interesting that the term goes back to Volta. I was thinking it was from the Maxwell era.
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26th Feb 2018, 3:30 pm | #7 | |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Quote:
The originator of the invention was Pieter van Musschenbroek, a Dutch polymath. He lived in Leiden (correct spelling) and after he described his experiments to another scientist in a letter, and the letter was translated shortly afterwards, the name was transliterated to 'Leyden' jar, after his place of origin. The idea took hold in 1746, way before Volta contributed to science with his Voltaic pile. Van Musschenbroek was contemporary with Newton, and even attended his lectures. For Van Musschenbroek, it was a natural extension of his original research into electrostatics that took him in the direction of looking for a way to store electrical charge. He had already contributed to the refinement of machines that could create electrostatic charge, without storing it. Van Musschenbroek and a German contemporary of his (who actually pipped him to the post in terms of the discovery) both clearly knew that charge was being concentrated into a small space by the 'Leyden' jar, where it could do work if an external circuit was completed. This concept of confinement of a charge remained intact in the English formulation, condenser. It had been there from the beginning...
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26th Feb 2018, 3:35 pm | #8 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
There seems to have been some uncertainty as to what to use the word for at least until Maxwell's day...
"I had rather call it a condenser of electricity, using a word which expresses at once the reason and cause of the phenomenon" (Volta, 1782) "The metal plate... does actually condense or acquire a greater quantity of electricity" (Volta, 1782) "Accumulators are sometimes called Condensers, but I prefer to restrict the term 'condenser' to an instrument which is used not to hold elecricity but to increase its superficial density" (Maxwell, "Electricity and Magnetism", 1881) |
26th Feb 2018, 5:15 pm | #9 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Here's the definition given in the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Brittannica: The word was used in a number of different fields ito refer to concentration or intensification.
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26th Feb 2018, 5:44 pm | #10 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
In Germany the word is still used - Kondensator.
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26th Feb 2018, 5:54 pm | #11 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
condensateur in French
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26th Feb 2018, 6:03 pm | #12 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
condensatore in Italian
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26th Feb 2018, 6:37 pm | #13 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
And condenser in The Radiophile
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26th Feb 2018, 7:32 pm | #14 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Kонденсатор ='Condensator,' likewise, in Russian.
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26th Feb 2018, 7:47 pm | #15 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Condensador in Spanish.
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26th Feb 2018, 7:57 pm | #16 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
I've always thought that 'condenser' was also the standard term for a capacitor in American English, and even in the UK it is still sometimes preferred over the term 'capacitor' whenever capacitors are referred to in an automotive context.
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26th Feb 2018, 8:45 pm | #17 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
With my main vintage electronic interest being in aircraft equipment from the WW2-era, where all the documentation uses 'condenser', I tend to use both words at random!
I've always though 'capacitor' was imported from America. If not, where did it come from? Andy |
26th Feb 2018, 9:10 pm | #18 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
I also thought 'capacitor' became the preferred term in America before it did in Britain. Would an American member like to comment?
In Britain the change of terminology seemed to happen in the 50s. You rarely find transistor circuits described as using condensers. |
26th Feb 2018, 9:28 pm | #19 |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
My mid 1960's text book says "Capacitor or condenser" with a foot note saying "Capacitor is recommended by the British Standards Institution, but the term 'condenser' is still widely used".
Resistors have resistance. Inductors have inductance. Condensers have condensance When I hear the word condenser I immediately think of the part of a steam engine which condenses steam back into water.
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26th Feb 2018, 10:33 pm | #20 | |
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Re: Origin of 'condenser' name
Quote:
When looking up 'capacitor' it has 'condenser' in brackets. So the BBC back in '43 were moving over to 'capacitor' as the descriptor of choice. Instruction TT5 (1944) on MW matching networks still refers to condensers, however. Atkinson, in his 1947 book 'Telephony' uses 'condenser' primarily but has 'capacitor' in brackets afterwards. So it looks like the British were being gradually nudged over to 'capacitor' in the 1940s: a very, very, gradual nudge... I get the impression from the Admiralty Handbook that 'condense' in condenser is used in the sense like making denser or more concentrated: 'the charge which a body can hold for a given potential may be increased by concentrating the region over which its field extends...' A 'Jar', incidentally, does originate with the Leyden Jar, and 1 Jar = 1.11111nF (1nF = 0.9 Jars). The Jar was discontinued in 1938, having been deemed obsolete for a few years previous to then.
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